00:22:51 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.29-a0-243-g602b31c20e (34) 00:42:05 -!- Amadiro_ is now known as Amadiro 00:55:38 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.29-a0-243-g602b31c20e 01:33:59 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-4567-gb362bb5a12 01:54:10 Monster database of quite-the-item branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.29-a0-27-g318e63bf0e 03:45:09 -!- TAS-2012v is now known as TAS_2012v 04:21:31 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-4567-gb362bb5a12 05:07:12 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.29-a0-243-g602b31c (34) 07:10:26 03Aliscans02 {GitHub} 07* 0.29-a0-244-g85c4641: feat: add annotations for distracted monsters 10(2 minutes ago, 3 files, 14+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/85c4641d080c 07:23:28 <10PleasingFungus> spicycebolla: yeah, you sort of have to be watching for it to notice sixfirhy nonsense 07:23:40 <10PleasingFungus> might be clearer once random energy goes 07:23:49 <12ebering> speaking of 07:23:55 <12ebering> when u gonna windmill smash that merge button 07:26:25 oh 'bering: that spare errant lookin tree was on purpose, to break up the symmetry and maybe add a point of visual curiousity 07:27:37 and for the abyssal oklob guarding a door out, i was wonderin, can abyss vaults be bigger than 7x7? a bit of foreshadowing might be nice before the player pulls up on a ranged disto critter 07:29:16 <12ebering> so I was thinking a bit more about the starflowers 07:29:32 <12ebering> I think a better way to implement them would be a distortion branded attack that's inherently reach_three 07:29:36 <12ebering> lil rift trees 07:30:09 ah, so a new monster type after all? 07:30:29 i had been thinking about imps or red devils with distortion slings 07:30:30 <12ebering> well, I'm riffing on two ideas here 07:30:36 <12ebering> no 07:30:44 <12ebering> don't give out disto branded ranged weapons to the player 07:32:32 oh right 07:32:32 <12ebering> as for oklobs, just oklobs alone don't need much foreshadowing 07:32:32 <12ebering> since "walk away" is good 07:32:32 <12ebering> plus if it's small abyss shifting might open a line of fire at the player at an inopportune time 07:32:32 <12ebering> rare and funni 07:32:36 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.29-a0-244-g85c4641d08 (34) 07:37:30 <09gammafunk> this is to be some kind of stationary abyssal monster? 07:39:16 <10PleasingFungus> ebering: wasn't sure if you still wanted more testing! 🙂 I think i want to poke at how the logic works with ogres and other cases where the monster can't follow your move, and then i'm ready 07:42:44 <12ebering> I've given it my satisfaction 07:43:37 <12ebering> still a bit concerned about En's second invis but that's not a showstopper 07:43:55 <12ebering> oh, also not sure if you addressed it but constrictors shouldn't startstop constricting you on an opportunity attack 07:43:59 <10PleasingFungus> i think i fixed that 07:44:04 <10PleasingFungus> assuming you haven't noticed it in a few days 07:46:02 <12ebering> haven't 07:47:57 en 1 vuln 1 invis? 07:52:51 <09gammafunk> ebering's Ens die by turn 5, of course he hasn't noticed :wfrTeeth: 07:53:20 <09gammafunk> I guess I should play another test game myself that's not felid 07:58:09 03ebering02 07* 0.29-a0-245-g1a685ed: feat: distinguish drain levels in monster list (Aliscans) 10(86 seconds ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1a685ed5dead 07:59:56 -!- TAS-2012v is now known as TAS_2012v 07:59:57 -!- daethoven82 is now known as daethoven8 07:59:57 -!- kenzie6 is now known as kenzie 08:02:32 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.29-a0-246-ge5966c3f1e (34) 08:04:58 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-246-ge5966c3: Tweak Sheza's Dance cast messages (SpicyCebolla) 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 3+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e5966c3f1ecc 08:07:31 <12ebering> smh not closing the pr 08:09:29 <10PleasingFungus> o 08:09:35 <10PleasingFungus> i didn't see it 08:14:38 <09gammafunk> hrm 08:14:47 <09gammafunk> > - Warpers and Arkane Markspersons get more boomerangs of dispersal. opam seems to have a scroll of invuln instead 08:15:06 <12ebering> it's out of date 08:15:17 <12ebering> vuln scroll is the new hotness for am 08:16:17 <09gammafunk> > You add the spells Call Canine Familiar and Leda's Liquefaction to your > _library. Turn 12, rng on this branch officially broken 08:20:48 not sure at this point what the abyss idea is, but i'm having fun learning how vaults work 08:21:12 maybe we're talking about about oklob vaults in abyss, plus a new monster that's stationary but only range 3? 08:21:23 or, like some kind of planar oklob that has a short range disto as well as long range acid 08:21:30 <12ebering> yeah I was talking about two different things 08:21:42 <12ebering> 1. abyss vaults that place oklobs plus things you would like to go to 08:21:45 or oklobs, and a more traditional motile creature named NotRift 08:22:12 <12ebering> and 2. a stationary abyss monster (working name starflower) that has a rift-like attack 08:22:25 <12ebering> appearing in some special abyssal vaults 08:22:33 ah groovy. 08:22:52 I feel like even a good number of oklobs might not be that scary by the time you're running abyss 08:22:53 does it have Attraction? Mesmerize? 08:23:04 I like idea two tho 08:23:45 well, i'll start on some portal-guardin oklobs ^_^ 08:24:01 thanks for the riffs 08:24:05 <09gammafunk> oklobs in the abyss are perfectly fine in a vault; abyss vaults place far worse things 08:26:33 <09gammafunk> but I don't know the context of this vault, presumably not a rune vault? an abyss-native stationary monsters seems like an interesting direction, but if it has range 3 and nothing else it's going to require very specific layout to be good 08:26:33 did you already see https://github.com/crawl/crawl/issues/2413 08:26:33 <09gammafunk> it's probably best to design a "general" monster in the sense that it can be used in multiple contexts 08:26:50 <09gammafunk> certainly fine to have one case as the initial case, but you'd want this to be generally a monster you could use in various types of vaults, and it's slightly complicated since abyss itself destroys vault layouts over time 08:28:11 <09gammafunk> oh I would edit that message, but IRC bridge; was going to amend that to say "one specific use case as the initial way you deploy this monster in a vault, but..." 08:28:55 agree it was stationary i feel like it'd need something that happens at range 4+ 08:29:10 what if it was kindof an abyssal Balrug 08:29:12 <09gammafunk> yeah 08:29:14 with a very long whip 08:29:49 <09gammafunk> it's probably nice to have something with different attacks at different ranges 08:30:02 <09gammafunk> if it hits you with disto at los range it's probably somewhat awkward 08:30:09 there's always harpoon shot 08:30:20 <09gammafunk> will blink you out of los more easilly 08:30:58 okay actually, i am digging harpoon shot + shortish range disto. theoretically it can pinball you back and forth in its range if you let it 08:31:02 <09gammafunk> there is a blink close spell too, but you probably want to actually have some other kind of debuff or attack 08:31:07 like a cat toying with a whatever 08:33:20 <09gammafunk> I guess harpoon is an attack, but it's pretty low damage 08:33:20 <09gammafunk> *??harold 08:33:20 <04Cerebot> Harold (@) | Spd: 10 | HD: 9 | HP: 64-87 | AC/EV: 6/6 | Dam: 20 | weapons, items, doors, fighter, spellcaster | Res: will(60) | Corpse | XP: 872 | Sp: harpoon shot (2d12), sentinel's mark | Sz: Medium | Int: human. 08:33:20 <09gammafunk> *??oklob plant 08:33:20 <04Cerebot> oklob plant (P) | Spd: 10 (stationary) | HD: 10 | HP: 46-62 | AC/EV: 10/0 | plant, unbreathing | Res: will(40), poison, acid+++, drown, torm | XP: 558 | Sp: spit acid (3d14) [!AM, !sil] | Sz: small | Int: brainless. 08:33:20 <09gammafunk> I guess this is probably more mid level type of abyss thing, but if it's mostly found in vaults 08:33:20 what's this new asterisk prefix :o 08:33:20 <09gammafunk> it kind of needs to be somewhat strong I feel 08:33:20 <09gammafunk> maybe just go hd 15 to up damage 08:33:20 *??swamp worm 08:33:20 <09gammafunk> *??harold hd:15 08:33:20 <04Cerebot> Harold (@) | Spd: 10 | HD: 15 | HP: 108-155 | AC/EV: 7/6 | Dam: 20 | weapons, items, doors, fighter, spellcaster | Res: will(60) | Corpse | XP: 1681 | Sp: harpoon shot (2d16), sentinel's mark | Sz: Medium | Int: human. 08:33:20 <09gammafunk> well, not a huge effect there 08:33:39 <09gammafunk> it's cute though, feels sort of like some kind of "natural" set of abilities to have together 08:33:47 <09gammafunk> and would be a pretty straightforward/simple design 08:34:17 hmmmm. double-harpoon shot, hd15? is there an easy way to make a monster just use the ability twice whenever it uses the ability? 08:34:28 <12ebering> no 08:34:31 <09gammafunk> oh, that doesn't sound very good 08:34:50 <09gammafunk> well maybe I don't know what you mean, but why would you want it to use the ability twice? 08:34:57 <12ebering> but a couple of these things harpooning you and pokin you with disto 08:34:59 cuz the damage was too low 08:35:03 <12ebering> in some terrain that's sad 08:35:08 <09gammafunk> ah, well you can up the hd a bit 08:35:10 <12ebering> (for you, good for them) 08:35:18 <09gammafunk> I mean, to be fair, the reach attack will be the main damage 08:35:21 i guess better to just have more of them if you want more certainty of harpoon happening occasionally 08:35:37 <09gammafunk> I guess my low damage at +4 complaint wasn't really a good complaint 08:35:38 <09gammafunk> yep 08:35:45 ...range7 constrict that drags you one or two tiles at a time as a more horrific version of harpoon shot >_> 08:35:47 <09gammafunk> see for instance: gammafunk_worm_tunnel 08:36:00 yeh that's a neat puzzle 08:36:53 <09gammafunk> yeah, I'd avoid trying to re-invent the wheel slightly here, in terms of making some new attack type that does a similar thing. You could go the starspawn tentacle route 08:37:03 <09gammafunk> they have tentacles that pull you closer 08:37:14 @??starspawn 08:37:15 unknown monster: "starspawn" 08:37:49 <09gammafunk> *??tentacled starspawn 08:37:50 <04Cerebot> tentacled starspawn (X) | Spd: 10 | HD: 16 | HP: 74-100 | AC/EV: 5/5 | Dam: 40, 25 | non-living, doors, unbreathing | Res: will(120), poison+++, drown, miasma, neg+++, torm | XP: 1509 | Sp: spawn tentacles [!AM, !sil] | Sz: Giant | Int: human. 08:38:06 <09gammafunk> doesn't really show you damage info, they don't do that much damage either 08:40:05 <12ebering> *??tentacle sgment 08:40:05 <04Cerebot> unknown monster: "tentacle sgment" 08:40:05 <12ebering> *??tentacle segment 08:40:05 <04Cerebot> tentacle segment (*) | Spd: 18 (stationary) | HD: 12 | HP: 40-54 | AC/EV: 5/7 | amphibious, cold-blooded, fly | Res: will(invuln), drown | XP: 0 | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 08:40:05 oh yeah those things 08:40:05 <09gammafunk> that's the segment, not the tentacle itself iirc? 08:40:05 they have a serious vulnerability to aoe though 08:40:05 <12ebering> *??tentacle 08:40:05 <04Cerebot> tentacle (w) | Spd: 17 (stationary) | HD: 12 | HP: 40-54 | AC/EV: 5/7 | Dam: 29 | amphibious, cold-blooded, fly | Res: will(invuln), drown | XP: 0 | Sz: Large | Int: animal. 08:40:05 and axes are pretty dang popular. FE too, right now 08:40:05 <12ebering> 29 dam nothing to sneeze at 08:40:05 <09gammafunk> *??starspawn tentacle 08:40:05 <04Cerebot> starspawn tentacle (w) | Spd: 10 (stationary) | HD: 11 | HP: 18-25 | AC/EV: 8/2 | Dam: 3(constrict) | non-living, fly, unbreathing | Res: will(invuln), poison+++, drown, miasma, neg+++, torm | XP: 0 | Sz: Large | Int: human. 08:40:05 <09gammafunk> that's the actual one 08:40:05 <12ebering> oh 08:40:05 <09gammafunk> I think the one you looked up is kraken tentacle 08:40:05 <12ebering> well, numbers easy to tune 08:40:05 well, harpoonshot/distoslap might be plenty. one at a time on A1, a couplefew of them on A2-3, and spawns in "bands" on A4+? 08:40:05 <12ebering> if they're stationary I'd prefer they only be used in abyss themed vaults 08:40:14 <12ebering> but could be a good abyssal oklob 08:40:33 <12ebering> and in a vault you can do layout tricks to give em an advantage 08:40:47 <12ebering> layouts degrade over time in the abyss but oh welll 08:40:58 convenient that disto has AC-ignoring damage built in, so that it challenges characters of varying quality levels 08:41:11 <09gammafunk> harpoon shot already doing 2d16, which is average of 17, higher than 1d29 fwiw 08:41:34 <10PleasingFungus> would like to request no more tentacles 08:41:43 <10PleasingFungus> at least not ones with segment mechanics 08:42:01 <10PleasingFungus> monsters themed after purple tentacle or w/e are fine 08:42:21 too many tentacle monsters rn? 08:42:33 <09gammafunk> maybe harpoon shot is the way to go; alternately you can always do some other kind of range 4+ thing and blink closer 08:42:41 i personally don't find tentacle monsters challenging cuz of that vulnerability to aoe. any chump with tremorstones/vane can reck 'em 08:42:51 <09gammafunk> I suppose just blink closer and the 3-reach attack is fine 08:43:17 ??blink close 08:43:17 I don't have a page labeled blink_close in my learndb. 08:43:24 <09gammafunk> ??blink closer 08:43:24 <04Cerebot> I don't have a page labeled blink_closer in my learndb. 08:43:26 <09gammafunk> rip 08:43:27 @??guardian naga 08:43:27 unknown monster: "guardian naga" 08:43:33 heck 08:43:35 <09gammafunk> *??nagaraja 08:43:36 <04Cerebot> nagaraja (N) | Spd: 10 (move: 140%) | HD: 15 | HP: 69-93 | AC/EV: 8/9 | Dam: 27, 7(constrict) | weapons, items, doors, fighter, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: will(140), poison | Corpse | XP: 1324 | Sp: spit poison (d22) [!AM, !sil, breath], b.venom (3d19), poison arrow (3d22), dimension anchor, haste | Sz: Large | Int: human. 08:43:41 <09gammafunk> they don't got it 08:43:44 <09gammafunk> oh 08:43:45 <09gammafunk> sorry 08:43:48 <09gammafunk> *??guardian serpent 08:43:49 <04Cerebot> guardian serpent (S) | Spd: 15 | HD: 8 | HP: 37-50 | AC/EV: 6/14 | Dam: 26 | spellcaster, see invisible | Res: will(60), poison | Corpse | XP: 457 | Sp: b.venom (3d13), slow, blink allies encircling | Sz: Large | Int: human. 08:43:51 that one! 08:43:53 <09gammafunk> that's blink allies encircling 08:43:55 <09gammafunk> *??roxanne 08:43:55 oh but still wrong blink 08:43:56 <04Cerebot> Roxanne (8) | Spd: 10 (stationary) | HD: 14 | HP: 153-206 | AC/EV: 20/0 | non-living, items, doors, spellcaster, unbreathing | Res: will(invuln), fire++, cold++, elec, poison+++, drown, miasma, neg+++, torm | XP: 1359 | Sp: b.magma (3d23), iron shot (3d26), crystal spear (3d32), blink other close | Sz: Large | Int: human. 08:43:57 <09gammafunk> I mean this 08:43:59 heck 08:44:02 <09gammafunk> "blink other close" 08:44:03 ah 08:44:07 is it resistable? 08:44:14 <09gammafunk> will check iirc? 08:44:15 <12ebering> no 08:44:17 <09gammafunk> oh rip 08:44:22 <12ebering> well -Tele gear 08:44:31 <09gammafunk> harpoon shot is "resistable" with shield and ev 08:44:40 <12ebering> blink other close might require lof 08:44:41 <09gammafunk> and AC since if it does no damage it can't yoink 08:46:56 irresistible makes it a fun(nier) monster. resistable might be a relief for players cuz mutations are not 08:46:56 is that bubblescream attack resistable with will? 08:46:56 <09gammafunk> no 08:46:56 (wait. roxanne can use doors? why?) 08:46:56 <09gammafunk> gonna make a sick roxanne door vault 08:46:56 <12ebering> f l a v o r 08:46:56 nice catchosaur :P 08:46:56 <09gammafunk> door_vault_roxanne 08:46:56 <09gammafunk> agree with ebering that this is a vault monster and not for random distribution 08:46:56 shall i draft up this monster and learn how monsters are made? 08:46:56 or was one of y'all wanting to run with it 08:46:59 <09hellmonk> make Roxanne an octopode statue! 08:47:03 <12ebering> yes make it! 08:47:06 <09gammafunk> I guess I do sort of like harpoon shot the most out of all proposals so far, since it can always get some damage in with that 08:47:13 <12ebering> and some vaults for it to live in 08:47:28 ok brb 1yr 08:47:34 <09gammafunk> and it interacts with ac/ev/sh which is kind of more interesting than irresistable 08:47:55 <09gammafunk> roxanne kind of needs the extra punch as a unique 08:47:58 i've made monsters in nethack this can't be much harder right >_> 08:48:04 <09gammafunk> but for these things you could place just two and it scales well 08:48:06 better struct comments at least 08:48:13 <09gammafunk> harpoon shot would, I mean 08:48:37 <09gammafunk> but for roxanne she kind of has to have that extra security of actually getting you close 08:48:54 right 08:49:03 cuz she's a Solo Bossfight 08:49:37 <09gammafunk> yep 08:49:38 !lg spicynames ckiller=roxanne s=xl,char 08:49:39 No games for spicynames (ckiller=roxanne). 08:49:42 aw yes 08:49:50 i'm temporarily not embarassed 08:50:14 wouldn't have been surprised to see up to 2 deaths there tho 08:50:26 nasty iron shots! 09:03:07 sastreii eat ur heart out https://0x0.st/oP1n.png 09:03:43 on second thought that sounds really macabre 09:04:23 it's weird that people say 'eat your heart out', what heck 09:27:57 <10PleasingFungus> spicycebolla: i think the right number of tentacle monsters is 0 09:27:57 <10PleasingFungus> they're a code nightmare and not exciting tactically 09:29:45 <10PleasingFungus> you want multi tile mons? go fight some slime creatures & starcursed masses 09:49:10 <09hellmonk> How about eleventacle monsters 09:49:50 <12ebering> using the new microsoft teams feature to send pleasingfungus "lmao gottem" every 2 minutes for the next 20 until he replies 09:55:57 <10PleasingFungus> oh no 09:56:09 <10PleasingFungus> what did i do 09:58:58 <12ebering> nothing, just laughin at hellmonk's joke 09:59:11 <12ebering> and letting you all know about this joyus feature 09:59:24 <10PleasingFungus> i have never used ms teams 09:59:37 <10PleasingFungus> still a slack/discord normie 10:12:35 should the distoslap be a veryreaching melee attack, or an ability? 10:13:08 <10PleasingFungus> very reaching sounds like a code mess 10:13:15 <12ebering> we already made the mess though! 10:15:53 smite targeted range 3 prob good enough tbh. monsters can already reach past your minions so for them reaching is practically smite? 10:15:53 <12ebering> just need this distoslap to return REACH_THREE in reach_range for the monster 10:15:53 <12ebering> and it will work just like rift 10:19:05 grand 10:19:50 barachianly speaking, is harpoon shot range los or range 7 10:20:33 <12ebering> I woudln't worry about those details 10:20:40 <12ebering> for this mosnter anyway 10:25:20 <09gammafunk> agree with PF re: tentacle monsters, despite what my pfp would imply 10:25:37 <09gammafunk> they are very thematic but they just don't quite work 10:26:35 <09gammafunk> a weird dynamic of filling up space with useless monsters (Tentacle segments) to allow you to kill them more easily, which doesn't seem introduce too much in terms of tactics 10:27:05 <10PleasingFungus> thankfully we only have like 4 of them 10:27:26 <09gammafunk> maybe someone could sit down and really think of good tentacle AI that would focus on the idea of how to use "space filling" monsters and introduce interesting tension between how they use space and how that helps/harms you 10:27:31 <10PleasingFungus> eh 10:29:37 what if the tentacle segments, physics be damned, had attacks. they could "flop", flail, or thrash against you sideways 10:29:37 <09gammafunk> yeah I don't have any great ideas myself, I did sort of imagine a multi-tile worm that "encircled" the player, a long time ago, and where it did more damage if it managed to encircle you, perhaps only if fully or as it surrounded you with more squares 10:29:37 or if they helped with constrict. like each segment adj to player halves EV or smth 10:29:37 thorn hunter does it good 10:29:37 oh that's basically g'funk's idea 10:29:37 <09gammafunk> well, thorn hunters don't really "trap" you very well ime 10:29:42 <09gammafunk> maybe they do work better than tentacle monsters, the briar walls, since it's going after a direct thing you can do with "space filling" 10:30:08 <09gammafunk> but I don't know that briar walls are all that great either, to be honest 10:30:15 <10PleasingFungus> my feeling is that, rather than start with "we have tentacles" and going to "how do we make tentacles work well?", we should instead say "we have krakens", "we have summon forest", "we have malign gateway" and saying "how can we make those work well?" 10:30:28 <10PleasingFungus> as in, what are those spells and monsters trying to accomplish 10:30:33 can an attack have multiple AFs? like AF_disto, AF_reach 10:30:39 <10PleasingFungus> eg kraken is trying to be a big scary water monster with some ability to reach players on land 10:30:50 <09gammafunk> kraken has the coolest head tile and no one can argue with me about that :gammafKraken: 10:30:53 <10PleasingFungus> sure 10:30:57 -!- Rjs- is now known as Rjs 10:31:04 oh, space filling works well on playerside imo. summon forest can block a lot of enemies when it gets going 10:31:23 <10PleasingFungus> malign gateway is trying to be a stationary summon that can end up dangerously neutral 10:31:24 <09gammafunk> spicyCebolla, one attack can't, but you can just give a monster multiple attacks, each with distinct af types 10:32:01 <09gammafunk> the tentacle aspect of summon forest ends up being pretty weird in practice ime 10:32:08 <12ebering> no 10:32:08 <10PleasingFungus> you could also look at af_reach_sting 10:32:19 <10PleasingFungus> which is a sort of goofy way of gluing two AFs together 10:32:34 <09gammafunk> the other aspects of that spell are cool, the turning walls into damaging trees, and I guess conditioning that on keeping a strongish ally alive is interesting 10:39:49 yes the angry trees are tr�s magicke positionale 10:39:58 before it was tr�s coole 10:44:47 -!- MakMorn_ is now known as MakMorn 10:49:56 aravol (L1 TeFi) Crash caused by signal #8: Floating point exception (D:1) 10:50:34 !crashlog 10:50:35 24307. aravol, XL1 TeFi, T:136 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/aravol/crash-aravol-20220304-174841.txt 10:51:59 <10PleasingFungus> ooh, quiver cycle 10:52:11 <10PleasingFungus> &rc aravol 10:52:12 <04Cerebot> http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rcfiles/crawl-0.28/aravol.rc 10:52:27 <10PleasingFungus> womp 10:58:23 I still want a Snake unique which leaves behind permanent tentacle segments as it moves 11:01:57 03Antanishin, Ernest02 {ebering} 07* 0.29-a0-247-g0cb962c: feat: add tile_sidebar_pixels option 10(6 months ago, 5 files, 17+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0cb962c1f099 11:03:31 <10PleasingFungus> what a fruity idea 11:17:56 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.29-a0-247-g0cb962c1f0 (34) 11:20:44 re 0cb962c1f099 , i wish there was a "crispy" way to upscale things. where like, pixels are neither upscaled into bigger pixels, nor blurred, but kinda "interpolated"? at 45 or 90 degree angles 11:30:23 03RojjaCebolla02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2437 * 0.29-a0-127-ga2e8cad: fix: prevent demonic wings + weakness stinger 10(11 hours ago, 1 file, 1+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a2e8cad37b91 11:30:23 03RojjaCebolla02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2437 * 0.29-a0-128-g34d8697: Simplify demon dash: 3 ev instead of 2 slaying 10(2 hours ago, 2 files, 7+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/34d86971377a 11:30:24 New branch created: pull/2466 (3 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2466 11:30:24 03RojjaCebolla02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2466 * 0.29-a0-235-gfe08a74: A couple quick starflower tiles 10(25 minutes ago, 2 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fe08a74989ec 11:30:24 03RojjaCebolla02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2466 * 0.29-a0-236-g819da33: Starflower "spellbook" 10(18 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/819da332046d 11:30:24 03RojjaCebolla02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2466 * 0.29-a0-237-ga98aefe: Starflower monster enum 10(24 minutes ago, 2 files, 24+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a98aefe81563 11:31:02 <09gammafunk> re: a-good-start, if you move more slowly than the adjacent monster you're moving from, can a monster get an opportunity attack and a normal attack in on the same turn? 11:34:23 <10PleasingFungus> ya 11:39:03 <09gammafunk> tested with opam with just goal of getting to lair, got chei from faded altar (of course!). Amazing early luck meant it was pretty easy trip and I didn't have to do too much early shenanigens. Vuln scroll definitely felt sufficient for that start, as the starting kit is just pretty good 11:39:10 <09gammafunk> hand crossbow, of course 11:39:46 <09gammafunk> sort of a weird test because chei meant it was extra unlikely that I'd move with adjacent monsters 11:39:49 <10PleasingFungus> i thought hand xbow was unusable 11:39:58 <09gammafunk> unusable? 11:40:07 <10PleasingFungus> that's what they're saying now 11:40:14 <10PleasingFungus> nerfed into the ground 11:40:15 <09gammafunk> oh, the reddits and such? 11:40:26 <10PleasingFungus> and the discords! 11:40:31 <09gammafunk> yeah the damage was good, but I was using d:3 acquired +6 hand crossbow of flame 11:40:32 <10PleasingFungus> by that i mean like 11:40:33 <10PleasingFungus> one guy 11:40:37 <10PleasingFungus> oh lol that'll help 11:40:38 <09gammafunk> but yeah even the +0 felt just fine on d:1 11:40:50 <09gammafunk> would have been a better test without such an insane upgrade for sure 11:40:56 <09gammafunk> I blame dev tools 11:41:00 <10PleasingFungus> smh 11:41:10 <09gammafunk> probably should try another run 11:41:43 <10PleasingFungus> up 2 u 11:41:43 i did some faded games to try out PF's assert that faded rocks 11:41:55 seems to mostly rock, yes 11:44:47 <10PleasingFungus> nice 11:44:47 one game i maybe got to d6 without seeing any altars? or at least, no fadeds, and no god i wanted for that char 11:44:47 <10PleasingFungus> coul d happen 11:44:47 <10PleasingFungus> a lil unlikely but far from unheard of 11:45:57 <09gammafunk> they rock until you get xom 11:46:19 <09gammafunk> to to mention a couple other fairly big downgrades 11:48:31 <09gammafunk> it's kind of hard to reason about form whom and exactly when they're "worth" 11:48:42 <09gammafunk> I guess that's a good thing 11:49:02 <09gammafunk> s/form/for/ 11:52:33 <09gammafunk> oh, and unanswered question from earlier: "what is *??". This is for the discord side only, because @ will begin to make a mention in the discord client, which is pretty annoying, hence on discord Cerebot accepts * wherever it would accept @. Won't work on IRC since you're talking to Gretell there 11:52:48 <09gammafunk> although I guess I could make gretell accept it too, which would be sort of cleaner 11:53:00 would it be reasonable for monspeak and randitem word databases to be merged someday? not in the files, but in the db that gets built by the compiler 11:53:20 the libraries of adjectives, verbs, nouns, and fruits could really add a lot of variety to speech lines 11:54:27 ah, thanks, that makes sense 11:55:38 oh cool, so that means book lookups can be done from irc with @! 11:59:26 <09gammafunk> actually didn't PF merge that branch? 11:59:38 <09gammafunk> @??short sword 11:59:39 <04Cerebot> Base accuracy: +4 Base damage: 6 Base attack delay: 1.1 | This weapon's minimum attack delay (0.5) is reached at skill level 12. | It is particularly good for stabbing helpless or unaware enemies, and dexterity rather than strength increases its damage. | This weapon falls into the 'Short Blades' category. It is a one-handed weapon. 11:59:49 <09gammafunk> you don't need a special prefix any more 11:59:55 <09gammafunk> in fact I disabled it in Gretell 12:01:30 <09gammafunk> looking at this output, I wonder if it would be good to munge it a bit to replace | with simple periods, so . 12:01:52 <09gammafunk> I guess it has to conditionally add that period 12:05:26 <10PleasingFungus> seems doable 12:05:26 <10PleasingFungus> don't feel strongly 12:05:44 <10PleasingFungus> really i'm just wanted it for books 12:05:58 <10PleasingFungus> it's ok for weapons/armour and pretty bad for everything else 12:06:04 <10PleasingFungus> *i just wanted 12:06:18 <10PleasingFungus> i was just annoyed at the idea of having to update our one billion book ldb entries 12:13:48 Yermak (L17 DDCA) ERROR in 'mon-util.cc' at line 678: bogus mc (no monster data): invalid monster_type 1000 (1000) (Swamp:4) 12:15:45 <10PleasingFungus> hm 12:15:47 <10PleasingFungus> !crashlog yermak 12:15:49 <04Cerebot> 35. Yermak, XL17 DDCA, T:43215 (milestone): https://crawl.kelbi.org/crawl/morgue/Yermak/crash-Yermak-20220304-191322.txt 12:16:00 <10PleasingFungus> looks similarish to the last one we saw, i think 12:16:22 <10PleasingFungus> i think it's something broken about the "bone twists into a wand" mechanic 12:19:14 <10PleasingFungus> that being said, not obvious to me why that'd cause this bug 12:21:17 the 3rd level of abyss is absdepth 27? if abyss itself is absdepth 24 12:21:42 worth noting that getting xom isn't honestly the worst thing from a faded altar. It's the equivalent of a side-grade in that you don't get a real god but you do get a thing that will—at times—help you out. 12:22:21 really it's just getting a god that is anathema to your background that's annoying (e.g., Trog as a caster or Sif/Veh as a melee combo) 12:23:09 (It's honestly an annoying enough part of faded altars that I would say halfing/quartering the chances of rolling a "bad" god for your background should be considered) 12:23:17 (but that sounds confusing to players) 12:28:31 <10PleasingFungus> doesn't really sound like something we'd do 🙂 12:28:33 <10PleasingFungus> for several reasons 12:28:41 <10PleasingFungus> hi kate 12:28:54 I figured :) 12:29:13 <05kate> hah, was just about to say roughly the same thing yep, also it's not like rolling faded altar trog on a "caster" is a bad result in terms of just strictly trying to win a game probably 12:30:09 Why's that? 12:30:27 <05kate> trog is very strong! 12:30:41 Oh, true 12:30:53 <05kate> if you just give up on spells and play it as a berserker that forgot their weapon skill you probably still have pretty good odds in the early game 12:31:01 truuuue 12:33:00 I didn't think about being that flexible 🙃 12:33:35 <05kate> i'd never been much of a faded altar user in the past because there were too many gods i just didn't enjoy playing, but yred might have been the last of those that i especially strongly object to until the rework, so probably i should try using them more 12:34:17 in a few quick test runs, i got yred, nem, [no faded altar found], ru, and lugy (twice!). gods you can really use on anything. my fear is trog/veh/wu, or worse, xom/qaz/chei/jiv. zin/tso could also be maybe annoying and usk/yred is not really much different from finding the altar normally? 12:35:15 it'd be hard to put in effort on a DE of trog or wu 12:35:22 The only times I've abandoned a game when I'm playing faded altars (playing for fun, not for winning) is when I got Ash for the forth time in six games, when I got Trog on I think a Dj (or another spelly thing), and Sif on a melee 12:35:39 Chei is very, very strong spicyCebolla. That's a good roll especially that early in the game. 12:35:40 <09gammafunk> > worth noting that getting xom isn't honestly the worst thing from a faded altar. It's the equivalent of a side-grade in that you don't get a real god but you do get a thing that will—at times—help you out. This isn't really true, what xom will do on average is worse than what no god will do. Yes you can have a good outcome, but that's just because the game is random. To put it another way, you can just rush an orc priest 12:35:40 when you clearly shouldn't engage it and manage to kill the orc priest, but that doesn't make it a good strategy 12:36:45 I wasn't aware that Xom was on average worse than no god—from my CK playthroughs I've done I had things that happened in high tension situations that usually helped me in an indirect way. Not often, of course, but it was still interesting enough that I enjoyed playing it. 12:37:11 <09hellmonk> Faded altar trog gets you to 1* immediately right 12:37:18 Pretty sure, yeah 12:37:20 <09gammafunk> re getting trog not being bad, disagree with that for many characters. It's bad in that it's a worse outcome than having access to your spells for those characters 12:37:30 <09gammafunk> yeah it does 12:38:13 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-248-g3d61074: Add mon-death asserts 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3d610745aa81 12:39:54 Getting Trog is more of a headache if you do want to go with it is one way of putting it, I suppose 12:39:54 <09hellmonk> tbh probably the worst one rn is faded oka on summoner since that guts yr book for less upside than trog 12:39:54 oh that'd be rough, yeah 12:39:54 i don't truck with chei apologists :P 12:39:54 <09gammafunk> yeah I'm not really commenting on the headache/fun aspects, those are definitely legitimate in terms of whether you want to bother with faded altar 12:39:54 i will ascend it once and then never again 12:39:54 <09hellmonk> still survivable usually 12:39:54 spicyCebolla my ^Chei win was legitimately easy compared to the rest of the combos I've done 12:39:54 <09hellmonk> tso on ne doesn't matter since you can just abandon or that'd be worse 12:39:54 <09gammafunk> yeah oka on summoner might be a better example. 1* trog with whatever trash weapon you've found so far is notso bad 12:39:54 <09gammafunk> right 12:39:54 Chei is really just another version of WJC in that you're rewarded in playing differently with regard to movement and positioning 12:39:57 (That's a stretch, I know) 12:40:00 <09gammafunk> you can't take kiku but that's not really a compelling argument that it matters too much 12:40:15 <09hellmonk> Yeah it does restrict future god choice 12:40:35 <09gammafunk> I think it's probably kind of complicated to figure out if it's actually """optimal""" to take the faded altar on some characters 12:40:54 <09gammafunk> it seems most compelling to me on really weak characters 12:41:24 <09gammafunk> since you have a real good chance of actually dying, so you can take odds of "rare chance I roll xom or a couple other really bad choices" vs "chance I just die on next couple floors, which is pretty high right now" 12:41:40 The times I deliberately play for faded altars are on games where I'm not stressing about "how do I win", but instead just trying to have fun with crawl's mechanics 12:42:13 <09gammafunk> sure, some people just really enjoy them, and that was sort of the context in which they were added; I think elliptic commented along those lines when they were first added 12:42:14 But I do think there are combos where it does make sense to go for fadeds as a strategic choice 12:42:48 <09gammafunk> I do believe alex wanted them to be taken fairly often, of course 12:43:38 <09gammafunk> they seem like they're in a decent place right now, although I don't really like that you can get xom from them, I guess; but maybe that's not really worth caring about, since like kate said there's still going to be a bunch of gods I really just don't want to play 12:44:29 smh Xom haters 12:44:37 <09gammafunk> I guess I shouldn't say "I really just don't want to play" by "any given player doesn't want to play" (as in each player has a list of gods they just don't want to play) 12:46:45 Fair 12:47:47 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.29-a0-248-g3d610745aa (34) 12:48:17 with xom at least abandonment is not much different than keeponment 12:48:42