00:20:40 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.29-a0-234-g0dae59b3db (34) 00:54:37 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.29-a0-234-g0dae59b3db 01:41:57 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-4567-gb362bb5a12 01:54:52 03RojjaCebolla02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2458 * 0.29-a0-235-gced8ed6: Add an arrival vault with teleporters 10(5 hours ago, 1 file, 38+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ced8ed65ab3c 01:54:52 03RojjaCebolla02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2458 * 0.29-a0-236-gfb4dd7d: Update old "teleporter" vault to use transporters 10(4 hours ago, 1 file, 25+ 19-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fb4dd7d0f1c5 01:54:52 03RojjaCebolla02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2458 * 0.29-a0-237-g837b848: Add another entry vault 10(18 minutes ago, 1 file, 35+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/837b848117c9 01:55:26 Monster database of quite-the-item branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.29-a0-27-g318e63bf0e 03:35:18 03RojjaCebolla02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2453 * 0.29-a0-234-g7dae157: Rework Mindarmour 10(2 hours ago, 7 files, 28+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7dae1573474f 03:42:01 03RojjaCebolla02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2453 * 0.29-a0-234-g998eb8f: Rework Mindarmour 10(2 hours ago, 7 files, 31+ 9-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/998eb8f0c30a 04:22:50 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-4567-gb362bb5a12 05:06:18 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.29-a0-234-g0dae59b (34) 10:07:38 Hello everyone. I'm compiling crawl on Alpine Linux and running into an issue. Alpine uses musl instead of gcc and musl doesn't have backtrace. I get "undefined reference to 'backtrace'" and "undefined reference to 'backtrace_symbols_fd'" errors at the "LINK crawl" step. 10:08:06 I'm not much of a dev (certainly not a C/C++ dev), so figuring out how to get around this is a tad beyond me... or at least has been in my search for a solution. 10:08:12 Hoping someone here might have some ideas. 10:09:10 https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/GCC ? 10:09:47 <12ebering> When reporting errors it’s best to post verbatim to a paste service: the exact steps you are taking and the complete output of the build log 10:11:44 @ebering Understood. This is being built on a pinephone... and isn't currently set up in a way that makes copying the full text over. 10:12:12 @Pinkbeast, I've installed the build-base package, but with the same result. 10:14:27 *isn't set up in a way that makes copying the full text over simple. 10:15:18 Hang on, "Alpine uses musl instead of gcc" - musl isn't a C compiler 10:17:22 However, backtrace is only invoked in crash.cc; you could dike all that out at the cost of not getting backtraces on a crash 10:17:29 Sorry. I misspoke. 10:18:44 @Pinkbeast, That'd be a fine solution. But, I'm not sure what 'taking all that out' involves? 10:19:12 I think the most easy way would be to remove the #define BACKTRACE_SUPPORT at the top of crash.cc 10:23:30 I will try that, thank you. 10:23:53 And sorry again for being in over my head on this. I'm sure I sound like an idiot. 10:28:08 <12ebering> Not at all. Crawls build system isn’t the most portable and it seems like you’re going to (or past) it’s limits 10:28:08 <12ebering> Good luck! 10:34:18 03CrawlOdds02 {GitHub} 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2287 * 0.29-a0-236-gd9b8b3f: Merge branch 'crawl:master' into master 10(4 minutes ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d9b8b3f2411a 10:35:00 <06advil> lamedodo: there was an issue about this, did you see it? 10:35:00 <06advil> maybe this is the same person 10:35:11 <06advil> what's the command that shows who is in irc? 10:35:35 <09gammafunk> !names 10:35:40 <09gammafunk> er 10:35:47 <06advil> anyways my comment in https://github.com/crawl/crawl/issues/2446 has a solution, add #undef BACKTRACE_SUPPORTED to the right place in crash.cc 10:35:52 <09gammafunk> !nicks 10:36:51 <09gammafunk> it's /names @advil 10:36:56 <09gammafunk> I was close 10:37:04 <06advil> heh 10:37:07 <06advil> thanks 10:37:11 <06advil> I guess they are gone 10:37:43 lamedodo is still here if that's what you meant 10:41:50 <10PleasingFungus> second to last in the discord bot's list 10:41:50 I presume it's in order of joining? is johnny0 last? 10:42:02 @advil I searched, but didn't see it. 10:44:28 It's already running with Pinkbeast's suggestion of simply removing #define BACKTRACE_SUPORT from crash.cc. I'll drop a message here about how it goes when it's done (it's going to take a while). 10:45:19 And I'm not the same person who reported it, if that wasn't already clear. :) 10:46:10 <06advil> Removing the define should work too 10:46:17 Funny that I'm not the only one who thought to put crawl on a pinephone. Figured it'd be nice to try, now that I have the pinephone keyboard to go with it. 10:48:41 <06advil> I think the crawl build way of handling this would be to make it so you could disable backtrace support from the make command, probably no simple automatic way of doing it 10:52:54 This is not my area at all, but it looks like there is a "if defined(__ANDROID__) #undef BACKTRACE_SUPPORTED" part of crash.cc. Would there not be a way to detect Alpine and/or musl and execute a similar check? 10:57:25 the right thing to do is conditionalize backtrace support on the ones that provide it. cf. https://www.openwall.com/lists/musl/2019/06/29/6 there is no specific macro for musl 10:59:57 ah, interesting 11:02:14 my guess is it came from the *BSDs originally and was inherited by both glibc and macos 11:02:14 so detect those to enable backtrace support 12:00:29 <09gammafunk> geeokosaur: yeah, johnny0 was last in the list 12:34:37 That worked. :) I've got crawl running on the pinephone. Appreciate the help Pinkbeast and @advil. 12:36:52 FR: tortle/hammond/boulder beetle(-ish) like species where you can stand your ground to greatly decrease damage/increase AC (no body armor otherwise) or retract your head to go into a speedy movement roll where you have increased movement speed 12:38:41 Getting BACKTRACE_SUPPORT disabled was really the only major hiccup once the proper dependencies were installed. If anyone else wants to try it, I'd also recommend not running make with the "-j4" option as the instructions suggest. 12:38:41 lamedodo: maybe you could document what worked for you and add it as a note somewhere? https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/INSTALL.md#other-linux--unix 12:38:41 oh nice, lamedodo! 12:39:04 <06advil> yeah, there's no easy way to identify that it is a musl target, it is alpine linux, or that include file doesn't exist in the context of c++ compilation that I could find. For packages that use it, this is very much the sort of thing autoconf can do, but we don't use autoconf. The ANDROID example is something where the fact that one is building for android isn't automatically detected, it's set in the make call 12:39:47 <06advil> lamedodo: probably should replace the 4 there with the number of cores the device has 12:39:54 <06advil> I think it does say that somewher ein the install docs? 12:40:00 <06advil> it should, at least 12:41:27 @advil, the pinephone has a quad core processor. The issue is more that it gets blisteringly hot with all of them running like that... plus the battery drain becomes faster than the charger can keep up with, and the battery falls fairly quickly (even while plugged in). 12:42:16 Not running parallel jobs takes longer, obviously... but is probably safer for the device. 12:45:36 !source mon-util.cc:728 12:45:36 Should mons_gives_xp respect no xp gain in the abyss, or is it intentionally not dependent on where the player may be? 12:45:36 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/mon-util.cc#L728 12:45:36 <06advil> ah, fair 12:46:46 interesting. i like -j3 so i can keep durdling at the computer ^_^ 12:50:08 <12ebering> it should not be; it's used for determining which monsters count for the abyss exit xp timer, among other things 12:52:28 cool, that's what I thought, just making sure though :) 13:06:16 <06advil> I actually usually use only half my cores I guess 13:06:16 <06advil> esp. on an M1 13:10:41 is being able to throw while berserk a "won't do"? maybe if there was a range limit of 4 or less? for situations where something steps back or blinks or whatever else. makes *me* wanna throw something ;) 13:13:05 why is throwing while berserk necessary? 13:21:58 hmm, i'd hardly call it, or anything in the game, *necessary* 13:22:14 was thinking about how dex+dodge+blades+ranged is its own category of stuff, and str+armor+throwing+melee is a tighter group of related things 13:22:38 and was spectating someone who got berserked only 1 tile away from a monster 13:23:06 losing a ton of berserk timer to take one step can be kinda a bummer, cuz you're tryna do rage's bidding by moving into melee but then maybe falling out of that rage 13:26:44 so, idk, thematically appropriate, maybe? but not necessary 13:26:44 just curious how hard of a No it might be at this time 13:39:48 03RojjaCebolla02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2449 * 0.29-a0-223-g0f24b04: Add "gauntlets of spell channeling" 10(37 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0f24b04ef3cd 13:40:26 <10PleasingFungus> think it’s cool that zerk has big upside and big down 13:40:26 <10PleasingFungus> don’t think it should be free for the “str armour throwing melee” char 13:40:26 <10PleasingFungus> or allow them to use evo or god abils either 13:40:26 <09gammafunk> Well, what's the gameplay justification for berserk not having its current limitations? For instance, why didn't your player berserk when adjacent to the monster they were fighting? It sounds more like they (probably slightly) misjudged the use of the ability 13:40:26 <09gammafunk> It's not about making berserk being an "all situations" tool, but a strong one in the right situation 13:40:29 <09gammafunk> The idea with berserk is that those limitations are supposed to be a thing you consider, because you gain this massive set of buffs 13:40:38 "got berserked"doesn't sound like they berserked themselves 13:41:07 <09gammafunk> So from that perspective, berserk relaxing its constraints isn't necessary; it's actually counter to the idea 13:41:10 <12ebering> that situation the limitations are even more important! 13:41:12 (moth of wrath? some *zerk item? that said the latter should be taken into consideration) 13:41:40 <12ebering> @PleasingFungus playing a KoFi on the good-start, really don't think the 2nd potion is needed 13:41:53 <12ebering> will try another cursed but potion-using Fi 13:43:13 <10PleasingFungus> @ebering nah, i'm fine with cutting that one 13:43:22 <09gammafunk> fwiw, "strong power but strong downside" necessitates that you'll sometimes get annoyed by the downside, because you'll make a mistake when using the thing and have to learn when to really use it (or allow yourself to be affected by it) 13:43:23 <10PleasingFungus> i value other things more 🙂 13:43:49 <10PleasingFungus> how is tictactical positioning feeling with 1/3 opp attacks? 13:45:31 03PleasingFungus02 07[a-good-start] * 0.29-a0-230-g1baa5c2: Cut second !might from Fi (ebering) 10(3 minutes ago, 3 files, 3+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1baa5c29b784 13:46:41 Branch pull/2435 updated to be equal with a-good-start: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2435 13:49:47 <12ebering> feels good. at a level where if I've taken too much risk it is a bit more punishing, but that KoFi had jackal pack for its first enemies and was able to retreat to a choke point without noticably more trouble than random energy 13:50:59 <10PleasingFungus> good! 🙂 13:51:37 thanks for the thoughts on ragey hurling 13:53:37 03RojjaCebolla02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2449 * 0.29-a0-224-g0846076: fixup! 0f24b04ef3 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0846076c109e 13:55:33 <10PleasingFungus> thanks for suggesting it! do think it's a good question 13:55:38 <10PleasingFungus> and a fine discussion to have 14:06:11 03PleasingFungus02 07[a-good-start] * 0.29-a0-231-gdf5289b: Weaken early spawns somewhat 10(9 minutes ago, 2 files, 7+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/df5289b81fdb 14:07:19 Branch pull/2435 updated to be equal with a-good-start: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2435 14:40:17 re: df5289b81fdb, would it be sacrilege for some of the monsters that are within LoS of the entrance on L:1 to get zapped, or pushed to the edge of los? 14:40:22 there's a pretty extreme difference between entering lair quietly, versus being greeted by a cane toad + black mamba combo 14:42:17 similarly depths is sometimes a nasty ambush, sometimes you get free license to prowl around and find a good spot to set up camp. maybe that could more consistently be an ambush, so that people know to go in loaded for bear 14:42:17 s/go in/enter the branch 14:42:17 <10PleasingFungus> re depths, i vaguely like the idea of elf-analogous "warning" ambush vaults, though someone would have to make em re lair, my feeling is that it's unnecessary complexity and doesn't solve any particular problems 14:42:29 <12ebering> I think these differences are good as long as we have a brancy dungeon. Sometimes L:1 stairs are awful and that's fine, you can go somewhere else to get stronger! 14:43:03 <10PleasingFungus> re lair, i think part of the context here is the argument that we do want to dial back on difficulty a bit 14:43:17 <10PleasingFungus> since 1.5% winrate or w/e is a lil low, and no pillar dancing is probably maybe a net winrate nerferino 14:43:30 <10PleasingFungus> and so the question arises: is lair stair zapping a good way to tweak difficulty 14:44:15 <10PleasingFungus> certainly it's very possible and fine to deal with a lair entrance fight, but we could try to reduce the odds of that to make the game a lil easier if we wanted 14:44:27 <10PleasingFungus> i still lean against but i think it's a fair question 🙂 14:45:21 <09hellmonk> if you wanted to stair zap for winrate improvements it'd be much more meaningful to do it on say D2-D6 than lair 14:46:19 <10PleasingFungus> sure 14:49:07 might help lair more consistently be "the place you go next after D has too many bad things in it" 17:46:30 I mean, L:1 stairs is a place I've died like... once at most? It's very rarely been a scary place, and the worst that could happen would just be some meanies or a hydra starting by you 17:46:30 but that's just my personal experience, I'm sure everyone has different feelings on that portion 17:48:54 I've been greeted by a yak pack a number of times, and not always been able to get away 17:49:54 that said, that worries me rather less than the lair entrance vault with the death yak(s) 17:50:23 <10PleasingFungus> or the one with the fire dragon! 17:50:43 the who! 17:50:59 don't think I've encountered that one, thankfully 17:53:19 I complained about the death yak entry vault before and was told that it was fine ;) 17:53:19 (but it is /super/ rough, yeah) 17:53:19 Definitely worse than any L:1 I've encountered 19:36:11 <09gammafunk> !lm * current br.enter=lair !boring / lg:place=Lair:1 19:36:38 <04Cerebot> 1157/15722 milestones for * (current br.enter=lair !boring): N=1157/15722 (7.36%) 19:38:51 <09gammafunk> wonder how the bot handles bridge users 19:38:59 <09gammafunk> .echo $chat 19:39:00 <04Cerebot> @gammafunk 19:39:12 test 19:39:19 <09gammafunk> .echo $chat 19:39:19 <04Cerebot> @gammafunk 19:39:22 <09gammafunk> I see 19:43:50 <08nicolae> thank you to whoever wrote install.md and quickstart.txt in the documents folders, once again they saved my dumb ass when getting crawl set up on a new machine 19:59:27 <08nicolae> dammit how the hell is my installation missing stdlib.h 20:00:12 did you install not only the stuff listed for tiles, but also the stuff before that? that's like the base set, not just console 20:02:43 <08nicolae> yeah i did the steps in install.md 20:02:43 <09hellmonk> lol can't wait to do that in a week 20:06:56 <08nicolae> dammit i think i might have using the wrong msys shell? 20:07:03 <08nicolae> they gave me like five of the fucking things 20:09:30 <09hellmonk> truly playing a shell game 20:15:41 03RojjaCebolla02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2437 * 0.29-a0-125-g3f6405d: Make demon dash into a proper DURation 10(7 minutes ago, 3 files, 15+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3f6405d35e28 20:16:18 getting shellacked 20:16:34 <08nicolae> at some point i should push a commit just to see if i have my ssh shit set up properly 20:16:39 <08nicolae> but that is a problem for future nicolae 20:46:38 <09hellmonk> // Note: this fuzzing is not symmetric, resulting in 90% of input // on the average. 20:46:43 <09hellmonk> thanks crawlcode, very cool! 20:56:40 <10PleasingFungus> lol 21:50:11 03RojjaCebolla02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2437 * 0.29-a0-126-gcd2e539: Split demonic wings into three separate mini-muts 10(5 minutes ago, 7 files, 30+ 20-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cd2e539fe65c 22:12:58 <09hellmonk> dcss death bolt like 95% working, just gotta fix messaging and adjust duration 22:21:16 <10PleasingFungus> sick 23:08:59 <12ebering> @nicolae there’s currently an msys bug that causes a missing stdlib.h 23:09:28 <12ebering> If you get the msys version from January it should work until they fix it 23:38:17 New branch created: pull/2462 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2462 23:38:17 03RojjaCebolla02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2462 * 0.29-a0-235-g39bff29: Shift gyre and gimbal to be early-game 10(33 minutes ago, 2 files, 4+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/39bff29da90d 23:43:47 <12ebering> > The protection brand is particularly relevant when enemies may only be > swinging for 9 to 20 damage 23:43:50 <12ebering> I don't understand this? 23:45:34 <12ebering> ??guru wisdom[ac 23:45:34 <04Cerebot> guru_wisdom[2/27]: imo hell is a bad place 23:45:34 <12ebering> what 23:45:34 <12ebering> ??guru wisdom[crate 23:45:34 <04Cerebot> guru_wisdom[25/27]: ac doesnt get worse if you have more of it 23:46:48 Also p sure pf specifically naysaid G&G as an early unrand at some point 23:55:05 <08nicolae> good 2 know 23:55:11 <08nicolae> i got it working in the end though