00:21:18 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.29-a0-231-g945431f764 (34) 00:54:12 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.29-a0-231-g945431f764 01:47:46 Stable (0.28) branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.28.0-43-g3370ac3207 01:50:53 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-4567-gb362bb5a12 01:54:11 Monster database of quite-the-item branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.29-a0-27-g318e63bf0e 01:59:44 Stable (0.28) branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.28.0-43-g3370ac3207 02:06:28 -!- indigaz0 is now known as indigaz 02:08:43 Fork (bcadrencrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.03-748-gf0bf930825 04:22:57 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-4567-gb362bb5a12 04:54:01 yeah, definitely just head canon lol 05:06:47 Though I will point out that my head canon is more or less compatible with what the player experience's if you're willing to stretch a few things. (Also I think it was kate that originally planted this idea in my head) 05:24:27 <03wheals> it's awfully nice of the monsters to stop hitting you while you go through the abyss in your head 05:27:15 Stable (0.28) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.28.0-43-g3370ac3 05:33:31 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.29-a0-231-g945431f (34) 05:39:10 um 05:39:17 yeah just ignore that part 05:39:41 * perryprog totally didn't think of that 07:41:11 marcb3 (L16 MiBr) ASSERT(you.running.turns_passed < buggy_threshold) in 'delay.cc' at line 473 failed. (Excessive delay, 700 turns passed, delay type 9999299) (Lair:2) 07:59:17 !crashlog 07:59:18 24305. marcb3, XL16 MiBr, T:41263 (milestone): http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rawdata/marcb3/crash-marcb3-20220228-144111.txt 08:34:23 can't replicate that, but that player has a pretty involved rc file (some hda paste) 08:36:36 hda monster spoilers is interesting 08:36:57 seems almost like something that ought to be part of the game / hints mode 08:46:47 <10PleasingFungus> remind me what it does? mentions stuff like banishment and para? 08:53:19 <06advil> you can see it in that player's rc http://crawl.akrasiac.org/rcfiles/crawl-0.28/marcb3.rc, look for mobwarnings 08:53:19 <06advil> I wouldn't imagine we'd want all of that 08:53:19 <06advil> but the short form monster summaries seem helpful 08:53:52 <09gammafunk> @hellmonk saw your vault, and this made me start brainstorming my own idea. How about this, orc ending with a deep elf death mage boss, maybe a couple pyromancers and deep elf archers, and all the orcs involved are zombies and spectrals, maybe simulacra. It'd be a two-for-one elf+necro themed orc ending 08:53:55 <10PleasingFungus> good worker ant warning 08:54:02 <10PleasingFungus> yeah, i can see that 08:54:37 <06advil> though probably this conditioning on resists would be v confusing if you don't know it's happening 08:54:55 <10PleasingFungus> would be cool to grey out the things you resist 08:55:35 <10PleasingFungus> Natasha comes into view. (spells/abilities: Magic Dart, Mephitic Cloud, Call Imp.) 08:55:41 <06advil> fancy 08:55:50 <06advil> ofc it's a large set of text to go stale easily unless it's programmatically generated 08:55:58 <10PleasingFungus> oh yeah i assume it would be programmatically generated 08:56:04 <10PleasingFungus> trigger based on threat level instead of xl 08:56:10 <10PleasingFungus> and just mention any spells or AFs 08:56:24 <09gammafunk> this is for a hints mode type thing? 08:56:25 <10PleasingFungus> could be default on in hints mode and have an rcfile option to turn it on for normal games 08:56:34 <09gammafunk> like actually just hints mode or sort of a standalone thing 08:56:37 <10PleasingFungus> we love our rcfile options, don't we, folks 08:56:42 <10PleasingFungus> i was thinking actual hints mode yes. 08:56:43 <06advil> yeah, I was thinking hints mode 08:57:05 <09gammafunk> hrm, it's interesting, but I wonder how helpful it is to just list these over and over in hints mode 08:57:23 <10PleasingFungus> could also track whether you'd seen that monster type so far that game 08:57:26 <09gammafunk> don't we want players to use x-v 08:57:37 <10PleasingFungus> we do, but also, it might be nice to have a reminder 08:57:50 <10PleasingFungus> redundancy can be good when communicating information; many ways to learn the same thing 09:00:08 <10PleasingFungus> bonus bonus fanciness: a mummy could see Sigmund comes into view. (spells: Magic Dart, Throw Flame, Confuse, Invisibility.) 09:00:08 <06advil> in PF's version I don't think there's much of a cost to repeating it; for a separate line in the message pane it's a bit much to do repeatedly. it looks like the HDA implementation does some checking about whether it's been printed recently 09:00:08 <10PleasingFungus> ooh 09:00:08 <10PleasingFungus> lots of ways to fine-tune it, anyway 09:00:08 <06advil> yeah 09:00:08 <06advil> one thing I've wondered about sometimes is if there's a way to put hints mode hints somewhere other than the message pane 09:00:08 <06advil> not trivial to sort out 09:00:08 <09gammafunk> hrm 09:00:09 <09gammafunk> yes! 09:00:15 <09gammafunk> I just had that thought 09:00:23 <09gammafunk> I think my internal objection was something along those lines 09:00:38 <09gammafunk> it sort of feels like the wrong way to draw player attention to stuff of this nature, on some level 09:00:43 <10PleasingFungus> they show up in item/monster descriptions and stuff sometimes 09:01:17 <09gammafunk> a hints overlay bar! right under the action bar! 09:01:24 <09gammafunk> clickable... 09:01:38 <09gammafunk> click natasha's magic dart to learn more 09:02:02 <09gammafunk> wonder if hints mode stuff can trigger -more 09:02:42 <06advil> it can I believe 09:03:36 <09gammafunk> there are certainly still a lot of hdrc spoiler users, so if it does become a thing, probably would see some use by those players 09:04:21 <06advil> a lot of people have it from a big cut and paste, do you have a sense for how many people actually enable it though? 09:06:54 <09gammafunk> hmm, well we could certainly try a spider or something. maybe looking through the tournament rc files would help? 09:06:54 <09gammafunk> if there's a string you can grep 09:06:54 <09gammafunk> those files are all on cdo right now 09:06:54 <09gammafunk> rcfiles/archive/0.28, and then by server 09:06:57 <09gammafunk> in dcss_tourney dir 09:07:50 <09gammafunk> and that should even include people not registered to clans or anything, just those who installed a tournament rc 09:08:00 <09gammafunk> of course many might have edited their rc after tourney 09:08:08 <06advil> SpoilerAlert without comments basically 09:09:33 <09gammafunk> apparently only 5 0.28 tournament players 09:09:49 <06advil> yeah, a few 0.28 players on cao have it enabled 09:10:36 <10PleasingFungus> that’s, what, 0.2%? ish? 09:10:37 <09gammafunk> probably more in the wild, I guess not scores of players maybe 09:10:59 <06advil> oops, I tried to run this grep on cao trunk rcs 09:11:01 <09gammafunk> I'd thought there were more 09:11:02 <09gammafunk> haha 09:11:24 <10PleasingFungus> wonder if t players are more or less likely to have this than average. more likely to have custom rcs but less likely to need help 09:11:49 <06advil> I bet if we had your version lots of people would use it though 09:11:52 <09gammafunk> right, every now and again, like once every few months, someone asks about how to set it up 09:13:43 <06advil> since in the ideal it wouldn't add message lines 09:13:43 <09gammafunk> yeah probably more would since vastly easier to set up 09:13:43 <09gammafunk> and right probably it would just be better 09:13:43 <06advil> yeah, I'm sure this hda stuff goes stale quickly and I don't know how actively they update it any more 09:13:43 <10PleasingFungus> think it'd be reasonable to add some version of this (as a hints mode / optional thing); i personally am not enthusiastic enough but i think if you were fine with including it in the message log, it'd be only a few dozen lines of code 09:13:43 <10PleasingFungus> if you wanted it somewhere else, that'd be tricky 😛 09:14:12 <09gammafunk> a little saltling pops up onscreen "Hi! You just met Sigmund. He has Magic Dart, Throw Flame, ..." 09:14:52 <06advil> "would you like to run away?" 09:15:19 <10PleasingFungus> lol 09:15:55 <10PleasingFungus> hmmmmmm, i wonder what has gammafunk thinking about saltlings 09:16:04 <10PleasingFungus> hmmmmmmmmm 09:16:47 <09gammafunk> you mean hellmonk's new orc ending? yeah I pinged him with an idea about another one 09:18:00 <09hellmonk> did think about adding a zin altar to the salt end but i decided not to 09:18:16 I'm sure there's lots of custom RC stuff that could be given better native support (e.g., arbitrary code based on messages, printing changes in health/mana) 09:18:39 <06advil> also, relevant new player question to this hints mode stuff https://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/t2uq77/is_to_make_monster_attack_information_visible/ 09:20:42 Auto equipment picker-upper too (although that's not too bad to write) 09:21:12 <10PleasingFungus> it's a good new player question, though it does ask for a disjoint set of information from what we were discussing 09:21:16 <10PleasingFungus> which is an ominous sign 🙂 09:21:38 <06advil> "spellbooks and such" 09:21:43 <08nicolae> equipment should actively resist being picked up 09:21:51 <10PleasingFungus> fine, a superset 😛 09:21:55 <10PleasingFungus> wonder if a better use of time would be trying to get the "mouseover monsters to see xv info" functionality in webtiles 09:22:17 <09hellmonk> remind me gamma what was the other orc end you wanted 09:22:33 <10PleasingFungus> something about elves 09:22:40 <09hellmonk> oh 09:22:52 <06advil> this is unfortunately extremely heavy in terms of what else needs to be transmitted over json 09:22:54 <10PleasingFungus> > How about this, orc ending with a deep elf death mage boss, maybe a couple pyromancers and deep elf archers, and all the orcs involved are zombies and spectrals, maybe simulacra. It'd be a two-for-one elf+necro themed orc ending 09:23:13 <09hellmonk> yeah Ive thought about elf orc, need to make it play differently from an elf floor 09:23:17 <08nicolae> orc ending with pan lords. 09:23:23 <09hellmonk> seems fun, death mage that early is pretty rude though 09:23:30 +1 for necro themed end vault to a normally not necro-based branch 09:23:34 <08nicolae> maybe dial back the HD and make it an apprentice death mage 09:23:49 <09hellmonk> malarious death mage 09:23:57 <10PleasingFungus> dying death mage 09:24:02 <08nicolae> dead mage 09:24:31 <09hellmonk> I wanted to do a spider mining accident end too, the good ending where they tame the spiders and use them in battle 09:24:37 <10PleasingFungus> advil: hrm, could be tricky to only make requests for xv info on mouseover, i guess - we're not really structured to have webtiles send info requests to crawl, only have crawl proactively push info to webtiles 09:24:38 orc end that's literally all just skeletons and no real monsters 09:24:42 maybe a single butterfly 09:24:46 <08nicolae> orc end that's just a single tiny room. 09:25:26 <06advil> yeah, for ui responsivity I think it would need to be pre-sent for anything in view, or independently calculated on the webtiles side somehow 09:27:28 <10PleasingFungus> both sound like nightmares tbh 09:27:28 <06advil> that's why even for feature stuff I worked on in 0 .28 I didn't add much in the way of mouseover 09:27:28 <09gammafunk> *??deep elf death mage 09:27:28 <04Cerebot> deep elf death mage (e) | Spd: 10 | HD: 15 | HP: 56-76 | AC/EV: 2/12 | Dam: 12 | weapons, items, doors, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: will(120) | Corpse | XP: 934 | Sp: b.draining (3d22), vampiric draining (4-37), call lost soul | Sz: Medium | Int: human. 09:27:28 <09gammafunk> tbh it's not that bad, just has bolt of draining 09:27:28 <08nicolae> dolt of braining 09:27:28 <09gammafunk> *??orc high priest 09:27:28 <04Cerebot> orc high priest (o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 11 | HP: 46-62 | AC/EV: 3/11 | Dam: 7 | weapons, items, doors, priest, evil | Res: will(60) | Corpse | XP: 795 | Sp: pain (d14) [!AM], smiting (7-17) [!AM], sum.demon [!AM], heal other (2d5+3) [!AM] | Sz: Medium | Int: human. 09:27:31 <09gammafunk> and hp not much higher than one of these 09:27:56 <09gammafunk> so long as there's only one, I think it would be on the lighter side of monster count 09:28:31 <09gammafunk> *??orc sorcerer 09:28:32 <04Cerebot> orc sorcerer (o) | Spd: 10 | HD: 9 | HP: 26-36 | AC/EV: 7/12 | Dam: 7 | weapons, items, doors, evil, spellcaster, see invisible | Res: will(40) | Corpse | XP: 560 | Sp: b.fire (3d17), b.draining (3d17), sum.demon, paralyse | Sz: Medium | Int: human. 09:28:50 <09gammafunk> yeah a little worse than b.fire but not too bad 09:29:05 <09gammafunk> oh nice, forgot those too have bolt of draining 09:30:11 <09gammafunk> grunt's animate dead end needs a revamp, since it basically stopped working in terms of its gimmick when we stupid removed monster animate dead 09:34:24 <09gammafunk> maybe just a removal since I'm not sure the layout is otherwise too interesting 09:34:24 <09gammafunk> need to take a look at it 09:34:24 <09hellmonk> yeah I don't think it's like outrageous or anything, but I do think it's on the harder side of orc end stuff 09:34:24 <09hellmonk> then again some of them place roka so who care 09:34:24 <09gammafunk> yeah, it could certainly get lower weight I guess, but I sort of prefer to just put a somewhat harder monster and make the rest of the opposition a thinner to balance 09:34:24 <09hellmonk> ya, good strategy 09:34:24 <09gammafunk> since ime these squishy upper tier monsters tend to be relatively pushovers without the supporting cast of their usual branch friends 09:34:24 <08nicolae> what about putting a somewhat harder monster and then making the rest of the opposition stronger to let the player know that there's a strong monster in this ending 09:35:07 <09hellmonk> hmm, how about an elf end where all the elves are dead and it places roka and 200 arbalest orc warlords 09:35:16 <10PleasingFungus> lol 09:35:18 <09hellmonk> and they all carry haste or zerk pots 09:35:52 <10PleasingFungus> oh hellmonk, tangential thought: in corpseless, will there be vault support to place decorative corpses? feel like we use those in a bunch of places 09:36:01 <09gammafunk> let's make the orc-themed-spectre that's analogous to the elf-themed spectre that is silent spectre: it projects a field of harm that gives all in its radius harm 09:36:13 <10PleasingFungus> silent spectre is elf-themed? 09:36:20 <09hellmonk> I hope so 09:36:28 <09hellmonk> gotta figure out how to do it 09:36:34 <12ebering> oh, re corpseless, if you want to delegate some tasks happy to help 09:36:39 <08nicolae> make another tile prop like "bloody", "corpsey" 09:36:48 <09hellmonk> ideally ig it would work like making tiles bloody yeah 09:36:56 <09gammafunk> ooh, maybe_corpsify_square() 09:37:25 <08nicolae> an opportunity to do things besides bloody. "bones", "skeleton", "body parts", "bug juice". just all kinds of flavorful gore. 09:37:26 <09gammafunk> (a reference to the function maybe_bloodify_square()) 09:38:12 <10PleasingFungus> hellmo has already proposed the filename corpsespatter.cc 09:38:36 <09gammafunk> dang he gets to make a new source file, lucky 09:49:25 <09hellmonk> making corpses not items is the last step probably, so won't be working on it for a while 09:55:05 <08nicolae> goldify corpses. if you pick up a corpse, you get "corpse points". what do corpse points do? well. you'll just have to find out 😉 10:10:12 <10PleasingFungus> i sort of think you might leave corpses as items, but take almost all the code that interacts with them 10:10:18 <10PleasingFungus> *take out 10:10:30 <10PleasingFungus> hrm. unsure 10:11:09 <06advil> item stack code is tricky 10:12:23 That's a weird spelling of "terrifying" 10:15:44 <09hellmonk> yeah, thats a possibility 11:38:58 No corpses might be cool and convenient for players in China? 11:39:26 Idk if there is still a law about that 12:08:32 <09hellmonk> think there's someone working on a option to turn bloodspatter off, could probably extend that to corpses 12:08:37 <09hellmonk> once corpseless is done ofc 12:08:58 <12ebering> ya, would make their life easier 13:00:28 yeah, one of the current things that that PR maybe is slightly stuck on is how to represent skeletons vs corpses 13:00:51 should possibly just go ahead and merge it though, prefect is the enemy etc etc 13:28:45 <10PleasingFungus> skeletal warriors, etc would still be a problem in china 18:14:26 New branch created: pull/2456 (2 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2456 18:14:26 03Ivy Sly02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2456 * 0.29-a0-232-gc143b2d: add new randart: sorcerer's shortbow 10(26 hours ago, 16 files, 94+ 23-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c143b2d2a44e 18:14:26 03Ivy Sly02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2456 * 0.29-a0-233-g4320f56: increase sorcerer's shortbow damage output 10(13 minutes ago, 2 files, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4320f5627626 18:27:10 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-232-g162f3ce: Fix @ display for launchers with armour 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/162f3ce599cf 18:40:16 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.29-a0-232-g162f3ce599 (34) 18:40:59 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-233-g1125b37: Describe eruption damage in xv (ardl) 10(5 minutes ago, 3 files, 13+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1125b37a9b7d 18:50:39 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.29-a0-233-g1125b37a9b (34) 19:28:49 03PleasingFungus02 07[a-good-start] * 0.29-a0-226-g6c102c0: Document wu jian opportunity attack immunity 10(36 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/6c102c0985a6 19:28:49 03PleasingFungus02 07[a-good-start] * 0.29-a0-227-gb106d0c: Handle monsters spawning while moving 10(22 minutes ago, 9 files, 21+ 20-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b106d0c714cf 19:28:49 03PleasingFungus02 07[a-good-start] * 0.29-a0-228-gec986b8: Turn backgrounds back down (per ebering) 10(7 minutes ago, 4 files, 11+ 11-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ec986b8edce1 19:29:59 Branch pull/2435 updated to be equal with a-good-start: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2435 19:32:58 Alternative fix to the monsters spawning cause a crash bug: leave the crash as-is and flavor it as "A rat emerges out from under your cloak right where you're walking. You trip and die. Do you want your possessions identified?" 19:57:57 <10PleasingFungus> perryprog, i say this meaning no offense and with great affection: maybe only post half of the jokes you think of 19:57:57 <10PleasingFungus> they're fun but only in moderation 19:57:57 Criticism taken :). I tend to have a lot more issue with impulse control later in the day (aka now) when I'm quite tired, so I often have trouble stopping anything that comes into my head from coming out. 19:58:21 <10PleasingFungus> no worries, not a big deal 19:58:32 Thanks for the note though, I do really appreciate it 19:59:25 <10PleasingFungus> all good 🙂 appreciate your presence here & contributions 23:10:01 <10PleasingFungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/948099771787280434/unknown.png 23:10:15 <10PleasingFungus> need to do something about brands 23:13:28 <12ebering> Nicee 23:15:47 <12ebering> I’d just adjust the brand description imo 23:15:47 <12ebering> Have it calc the average additional damage 23:15:47 <12ebering> (When possible) 23:15:47 <10PleasingFungus> what do i do for spectral.... 23:15:47 <10PleasingFungus> also uh 23:15:47 <10PleasingFungus> i'm out of characters already 23:15:47 <10PleasingFungus> this is at line width 23:15:55 <10PleasingFungus> coward's gambit 23:15:56 <10PleasingFungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/948101258437349466/unknown.png 23:16:06 <12ebering> That’s why I said adjust the brand description line 23:16:15 <10PleasingFungus> oh, neat 23:16:16 <10PleasingFungus> i like that 23:16:35 <10PleasingFungus> hm 23:18:22 <10PleasingFungus> i've also been vaguely considering giving a 'dps' version 23:18:30 <10PleasingFungus> adjusted for current delay 23:20:55 New branch created: damage-rates (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/damage-rates 23:20:55 03PleasingFungus02 07[damage-rates] * 0.29-a0-234-g9e6cfa3: Rate my damage (WIP) 10(78 seconds ago, 6 files, 122+ 69-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9e6cfa3f88da 23:26:20 <10PleasingFungus> realizing that slaying just makes so small a difference on big weapons 23:26:20 <10PleasingFungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/948103879407599667/unknown.png 23:27:29 <10PleasingFungus> 30 stat and mindelay skill on a 3x sword just means >80% of your damage comes from base + stats + skill, even if you have a +9 weapon and a slay ring 23:27:38 <10PleasingFungus> neat