00:02:43 <12‡※ of aphotic spite> I'd argue the combined total of non-flying insects has changed more than the like six or so deep elf trimmings 00:54:12 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.29-a0-121-g8efb068a30 01:01:02 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.29-a0-121-g8efb068a30 (34) 01:12:55 !crashlog 01:12:55 24281. spicyDoesTourney, XL27 DDCK, T:123168 (milestone): https://crawl.kelbi.org/crawl/morgue/spicyDoesTourney/crash-spicyDoesTourney-20220220-081122.txt 01:12:55 happened twice now :[ 01:13:58 was moving southwest to pick up that potion https://imgur.com/tBLGIcG.png 01:32:00 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-4567-gb362bb5a12 01:32:58 oh, nothing to do with the potion. cause_msg = "ASSERT(item.props.exists(ARTEFACT_PROPS_KEY) || is_unrandom_artefact(item)) in 'artefact.cc' at line 1013 failed." 01:33:24 oh, i think both times was shortly after i equipped some Reflect amulet 01:33:30 randart 01:41:51 oh, nup, hadn't yet put it on in the second crash. hrrm 02:35:11 New branch created: pull/2433 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2433 02:35:11 03RojjaCebolla02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2433 * 0.29-a0-122-g90df5ed: Feat: demigods' holy and unholy words are more powerful 10(2 hours ago, 4 files, 18+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/90df5ed1e169 02:41:35 03RojjaCebolla02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2433 * 0.29-a0-122-ge253abb: Feat: demigods' holy and unholy words are more powerful 10(3 hours ago, 5 files, 19+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e253abbe7425 02:54:19 03RojjaCebolla02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2433 * 0.29-a0-122-g0d98745: Feat: demigods' holy and unholy words are more powerful 10(3 hours ago, 5 files, 20+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0d98745f81a6 04:23:41 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-4567-gb362bb5a12 07:35:43 lol at `const player backup(you);` 08:01:35 <11Eino Keskitalo> Wow, roguelikes on e-ink does sound like a great match. 08:01:54 <11Eino Keskitalo> Interactive fiction probably too. 08:10:58 <06advil> I was a bit surprised it's fast enough but from what that poster has said, amazon has hobbled kindles somewhat 08:14:33 I took Oka's Duel in the abyss rune vault and got out in the wild abyss. Is this intended thing? 08:15:51 Ithink that's just the nature of the abyss 08:17:10 not sure whether that would be intended, it's not surprising to me that it happens given the way abyss code works, but I suspect it's not consistent with other portal / deletable level behavior 08:24:43 <05kate> it's intended in as far as i tested it when implementing it, found out it worked that way, and decided that was fine 08:25:15 <06advil> heh 08:25:20 <06advil> what happens in pan? 08:25:36 <06advil> I assume regular portals at least don't get recreated 08:26:24 <05kate> pan and other portals you go back to the spot you left from, yeah 08:46:53 There's a lot of active development for IF and running it on stupid old computers 09:12:24 <11Eino Keskitalo> You just made me feel bad I didn't hold on to a cool CP/M machine we used to have. 09:14:41 <11Eino Keskitalo> Would be so cool to ssh onto a Crawl server and play on a green phosphor screen too.. 09:22:49 Ooo, that does sound awesome 09:22:58 Plus you get that old keyboard feel 09:23:16 somewhere someone has to have an old Kaypro 09:24:42 * geekosaur suddenly wonders if Kaypros could run ZCPR3 09:27:15 hm, looks like it 10:06:47 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.29-a0-121-g8efb068 (34) 12:42:19 !crashlog 12:42:20 24288. spicyDoesTourney, XL27 DDCK, T:138208 (milestone): https://crawl.kelbi.org/crawl/morgue/spicyDoesTourney/crash-spicyDoesTourney-20220220-194014.txt 12:43:11 reported in #crawl, not announced here. double crash again? 12:43:37 bug report: the mutations screen doesn't close on right click (and most/all other screens do) 12:45:00 ah, i mentioned it late last night in here 12:45:00 didn't wanna spam the channel 12:45:00 that iis one unhappy stack trace 12:46:58 looks like stack corruption is happening somewhere to me? 12:53:52 spicyCebolla, I meant that Kelbell should be announcing a crash every time it happens. since it's not, it's probably crashing again while producing the crash report or cleaning up afterward 12:57:46 <06advil> the server bots need to be manually updated and restarted for a new version, possibly that didn't happen for kelbell 13:04:10 <06advil> yes, I don't see any 0.28 crashes reported by Kelbell 13:04:31 <06advil> (weirdly, I can't figure out how to search for Kelbell in discord directly because discord search doesn't seem to track the bot's renaming? Is there a workaround for this?) 13:15:50 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-122-gd09b832: Remove launcher ammo acquirement 10(5 weeks ago, 1 file, 9+ 37-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d09b832af643 13:15:50 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-123-ga8e9c98: Remove launcher ammo 10(5 weeks ago, 49 files, 490+ 1465-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a8e9c987b86a 13:15:50 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-124-g4fc27e4: Allow firing with v 10(5 weeks ago, 4 files, 135+ 38-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4fc27e4f60e4 13:15:50 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-125-g13dfb44: Adjust item gen for ammo removal 10(5 weeks ago, 2 files, 4+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/13dfb44323c7 13:15:50 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-126-g3bbc7b7: Remove ammo from vaults, sprints & the tutorial 10(5 weeks ago, 30 files, 78+ 94-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3bbc7b72607f 13:15:50 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-127-g3930750: Adjust ranged weapon stats post-ammo 10(5 weeks ago, 1 file, 10+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/39307501d7b3 13:15:50 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-128-gd562ef3: Remove the short sword from the hunter start 10(5 weeks ago, 3 files, 5+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d562ef3a1153 13:15:50 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-129-gcb38ff9: Remove webtiles launcher quiver 10(5 weeks ago, 5 files, 2+ 22-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cb38ff98391b 13:15:50 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-130-ga30ec57: Remove throwing weapon hunter start (Aliscans) 10(5 weeks ago, 8 files, 8+ 104-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a30ec5732981 13:15:50 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-131-g9b9ebdf: Remove launcher ammo from the \ menu (Aliscans) 10(5 weeks ago, 1 file, 7+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9b9ebdfc37b7 13:15:50 ... and 10 more commits 13:22:19 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-142-g920eff5: Mark dummy species mons as NO_GEN_DERIVED 10(2 weeks ago, 1 file, 7+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/920eff52f4f0 13:22:19 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-143-g141cb85: New unique: Parghit the Mighty 10(3 weeks ago, 14 files, 106+ 12-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/141cb8557277 13:22:19 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-144-g618b504: New unique: Josephina the Ice-Lich 10(3 weeks ago, 12 files, 105+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/618b504a9afd 13:22:19 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-145-g9cfbde7: New unique: Amaemon the Diabolical Poisoner 10(3 weeks ago, 17 files, 118+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9cfbde7411a0 13:22:19 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-146-g69db86b: New unique: Lodul the Thundrous 10(7 days ago, 14 files, 90+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/69db86b63cc6 13:22:19 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-147-g375cf7a: Fix new VISUAL monspeak entries 10(7 days ago, 1 file, 6+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/375cf7ae128f 13:22:19 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-148-g226d363: New unique: Vv the Exile 10(7 days ago, 9 files, 58+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/226d363e7efe 13:22:19 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-149-g06d020a: New unique: Zenata, Seeker of Sheza 10(6 days ago, 15 files, 117+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/06d020a54994 13:22:19 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-150-g67d208b: Remove most uniques from Tomb 10(3 days ago, 1 file, 8+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/67d208b9ac28 13:22:19 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-151-gd943714: Slot name: armour -> body armour 10(12 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d9437148fbfb 13:22:19 ... and 3 more commits 13:28:46 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-155-g8338fcb: Don't let nymphs/elios port to unseen foes (dinky) 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 19+ 17-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8338fcb62e84 13:28:46 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-156-ge9b396f: Allow looking up unrands in ?/I 10(21 hours ago, 3 files, 45+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e9b396fb1906 13:28:46 03advil02 07* 0.29-a0-157-g8aa3a5f: fix: webtiles save info collection 10(6 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8aa3a5f11ef4 13:28:46 03advil02 07* 0.29-a0-158-g57cb919: fix: simplify and fix setup for save info CLOs 10(6 hours ago, 2 files, 7+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/57cb919b733d 13:28:46 03advil02 07* 0.29-a0-159-gd8e2eab: refactor: clean up `chr` chunk loading 10(2 hours ago, 8 files, 139+ 92-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d8e2eab2725d 13:28:46 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-160-g566ef67: Remove HINT_SEEN_CARRION 10(10 days ago, 2 files, 3+ 41-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/566ef672692d 13:28:46 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-161-gca3a837: Simplify wand use advice logic 10(10 days ago, 1 file, 3+ 24-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ca3a83724eb9 13:28:46 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-162-g477d20c: Misc hints cleanup 10(10 days ago, 2 files, 28+ 35-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/477d20c3ff8e 13:28:46 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-163-gbc0daef: Cleanup NEW_ABILITY_GOD 10(9 days ago, 1 file, 7+ 17-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bc0daef7ccfc 13:28:46 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-164-g491e7b2: Update HINT_CONVERT 10(9 days ago, 2 files, 34+ 18-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/491e7b286d8a 13:28:46 ... and 5 more commits 13:29:59 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/67d208b9ac28#diff-186d2add52f6735cdbc300f3bd7c2b299b37d9724d30013064eae10d3b089e2cR325 forgot to change something? 13:29:59 <10PleasingFungus> oops 13:29:59 <10PleasingFungus> good catch 13:30:23 <12ebering> way 2 merge conflict pr 2271 (rip) 13:30:37 heh 13:30:54 <06advil> trying to get commits in right now is a bit like playing frogger 13:31:33 <10PleasingFungus> lol 13:31:42 <06advil> I uh do wonder if the post-t commit storm is really ideal, it makes it very hard to figure out what's going on 13:31:46 <10PleasingFungus> it's probably not 13:31:51 <10PleasingFungus> it is extremely fun though 13:32:05 <10PleasingFungus> i'm almost done fwiw, just going to merge those mut description changes real fast 13:32:07 <10PleasingFungus> and that's it for me 13:32:10 <10PleasingFungus> sorry for the trouble! 13:32:21 "the devs are committed!" 13:32:44 <10PleasingFungus> ebering: oops sorry, i forgot that PR existed 13:33:23 <06advil> maybe it means no one will notice if my one large but kinda risky commit breaks everything 😄 13:34:03 <10PleasingFungus> :content: 13:35:10 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-170-gcd8f631: dgn_place_item refactoring 10(3 weeks ago, 1 file, 57+ 88-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cd8f6311e781 13:35:10 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-171-gfffab11: Add item descriptions to monster 10(3 weeks ago, 7 files, 153+ 59-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/fffab11c1d9f 13:35:10 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-172-gc3e01e4: Fix Josephina vault (geekosaur) 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c3e01e4e4d3e 13:36:47 <10PleasingFungus> ...and i'm done. (though IRC people will see a few more coming in late) 13:36:47 <06advil> I guess you didn't remove my to-hit boilerplate? 13:36:53 <10PleasingFungus> i removed most of the boilerplate 13:36:53 <06advil> I think I do want to remove that 13:37:02 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.29-a0-141-g1eaea45740 (34) 13:37:06 <10PleasingFungus> was undecided about the constrict stuff 13:37:14 <10PleasingFungus> feel free to make further changes 13:37:14 <06advil> ah I see, yeah I guess it's mostly gone 13:37:41 <06advil> even there maybe "this effect can miss" or "is subject to an accuracy check" might be better 13:38:38 <10PleasingFungus> my feeling was that having the "accuracy" display at the bottom, along with the trigger chance, would be enough 13:39:01 <10PleasingFungus> this thing 13:39:01 <10PleasingFungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/945056973337022535/unknown.png 13:39:14 <10PleasingFungus> i also added some verbiage along the lines of "try to gore", "peck at", etc 13:40:15 <06advil> I also still think that anything that has a chance of triggering shhould give some idea of that chance, and would prefer it to be the percentage (because anything else is more confusing than helpful) 13:40:42 <06advil> maybe I don't understand what "non-actionable" means or why it means the info shouldn't be there 13:41:37 03advil02 {PleasingFungus} 07* 0.29-a0-173-g0ef5763: docs: attempt to despoiler various aux/retaliation muts 10(29 hours ago, 2 files, 119+ 20-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0ef5763bacfb 13:41:37 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-174-gbb7b57a: Beak 10(28 hours ago, 1 file, 4+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/bb7b57aa70bd 13:41:37 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-175-gadaf126: Fancy Lua horns description 10(28 hours ago, 2 files, 11+ 11-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/adaf126bc681 13:41:37 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-176-gb486001: Dataify aux attack trigger chances 10(27 hours ago, 4 files, 50+ 40-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b4860018a304 13:41:37 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-177-g507d7b0: Programmatic aux descriptions 10(27 hours ago, 7 files, 122+ 117-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/507d7b0529cc 13:41:37 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-178-gb9ea505: Tweak Ru eye desc 10(26 hours ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b9ea505e61a5 13:41:37 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-179-gca93a6e: Trim Jiyva mut descriptions 10(26 hours ago, 1 file, 3+ 13-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ca93a6e9437c 13:41:37 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-180-g9fbeeb3: More mut description tweaks 10(26 hours ago, 2 files, 8+ 18-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9fbeeb3dcf17 13:41:37 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-181-g65f3046: Unbrace files.cc 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/65f304602f16 13:42:52 <06advil> some of these have actually lost information over the course of edits, e.g. foul stench 13:42:52 <06advil> oh maybe it has the trigger chance in %? 13:42:52 <10PleasingFungus> for my part, i don't really understand why it's helpful to show the trigger chance of, say, foul stench 13:42:52 <10PleasingFungus> no, sorry, doesn't show programmatically at present (though it might be fun to do so) 13:42:52 <06advil> I just think players want to know what these effects actually do 13:42:52 <06advil> and that their desire to know that is v reasonable 13:43:52 <06advil> but previously that one at least said "Each level of this mutation increases the likelihood of this.", it would be best to at least have that 13:49:15 <10PleasingFungus> sure, yeah; that was an oversight 13:49:15 <10PleasingFungus> i'm going to have lunch and then can discuss this more after 13:51:27 <10PleasingFungus> my intuition is that adding that level of detail is unhelpful, but possible i’m stuck in a mental rut 13:52:39 <06advil> I would be fine with something like "rarely" if there were words like that that generalized, but these probabilities are kind of all over the place, as are the change with different levels for ones that do change 13:53:38 <10PleasingFungus> true! 14:08:23 <06advil> I guess the main faqs I might want to address are "this isn't happening much, is it broken / am I doing something wrong", "what affects the triggering chance and is it anything I can control", "if yes, is it worth trying to do that", and I guess just the obvious "how much should I expect this to happen". I sort of agree that none of these need an exact probability answer, but giving the exact answers addresses a lot of them in a very 14:08:23 compact form that works across a lot of mutations 14:08:44 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.29-a0-181-g65f304602f (34) 14:12:50 Normally I recompile mid-game when new stuff is pushed but I think this time I'll wait to finish my (going well so far) game... 14:21:07 why is it not all holy gods care about switching to jiyva? penance for zin->jiyva but not zin->ely->jiyva? 14:21:29 <12ebering> it is penance for both, or should be 14:21:34 <12ebering> might not give you the right warnings 14:22:10 Zin minds chaotic gods, the other two don't. 14:22:39 (er what ebering says is also true since zin will get exercised in the latter case) 14:23:34 i tested it in wizmode and only got penance for the first scenario 14:23:48 the altar desc is different for the gods 14:24:33 The Shining One forgives followers for abandonment; however, those who later 14:24:33 take up the worship of an evil god will be punished. (Kikubaaqudgha, 14:24:34 Yredelemnul, Makhleb, Lugonu, Beogh and Dithmenos are evil gods.) 14:24:56 Zin forgives followers for abandonment; however, those who later take up the 14:24:56 worship of an evil or chaotic god will be scourged. (Kikubaaqudgha, Yredelemnul, 14:24:57 Makhleb, Lugonu, Beogh and Dithmenos are evil, and Xom and Jiyva are chaotic.) 14:25:03 twelwe: How did you confirm no Zin wrath in the second scenario? 14:25:54 i was in wizmode both times, did zin to ziyva and got wrath, then tried both zin-tso-jiyva and zin-ely-jiyva and got no wrath 14:26:02 twelwe: How did you confirm no Zin wrath in the second scenario? 14:27:32 am i misremembering vehumet as an evil god? 14:28:34 I think people believe veh is evil because of "let it end in hellfire" but it's not actually evil? 14:29:08 Please answer the question, but Veh is not evil. 14:29:16 <05kate> you just pasted the list of evil gods and vehumet is not on it, and i don't see how that's related to jiyva yeah 14:29:17 wait, i did 14:29:55 first scenario was zin->jiyva, second zin->ely->jiyva 14:30:37 twelwe: I believe what should happen is that you should get zin wrath on the second conversion, at least for some interval after leaving zin; I just did this with wizmode commands and it seems to work 14:30:44 twelwe: You did what? 14:31:03 advil am i not explaining this right? 14:31:07 Because what you haven't done is answered the question. 14:31:34 I don't know but I just tried to do exactly what you described 14:31:56 so, again, i get wrath when i try zin->jiyva. thats scenario 1. i get no wrath when i try zin->ely->jiyva 14:31:56 (and I'm going to do it in about 4 minutes when crawl compiles but I bet I get the same result) 14:32:06 So, again, how did you confirm no Zin wrath? 14:32:16 twelwe: again, are you sure? because I just checked and that's not what happened :-) 14:32:26 if you look in ctrl-o, is zin red? 14:32:41 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-182-g5994186: Ru melee redirection refactoring 10(5 months ago, 4 files, 53+ 41-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/599418656c12 14:32:41 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-183-gd601ab3: Revert "chore: add a trunk reminder for the 0.28 tournament" 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d601ab35b5d0 14:33:56 one sec booting the build 14:34:07 so the first time around i get a wrath message, second time no wrath message, ctrl-O is showing wrath both times 14:34:16 do you have the channel muted? 14:34:21 wait nevermind on that too 14:34:37 no i am completely wrong sorry guys! 14:34:51 <12ebering> phew false alarm 14:34:57 <12ebering> back to the post tournament victory parties 14:37:35 <10PleasingFungus> :party: 14:40:21 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.29-a0-182-g599418656c (34) 14:47:44 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.29-a0-183-gd601ab35b5 (34) 15:04:43 New branch created: a-good-start (4 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/a-good-start 15:04:43 03PleasingFungus02 07[a-good-start] * 0.29-a0-184-gad99433: Improve characters' starting kits (Hellmonk) 10(4 weeks ago, 5 files, 72+ 61-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ad99433a23dd 15:04:43 03PleasingFungus02 07[a-good-start] * 0.29-a0-185-gc448a19: Implement closing attacks 10(5 months ago, 1 file, 66+ 16-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c448a19fa895 15:04:43 03PleasingFungus02 07[a-good-start] * 0.29-a0-186-g5eeece7: Don't recommend pillar dancing 10(2 weeks ago, 1 file, 7+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5eeece7d3941 15:04:43 03PleasingFungus02 07[a-good-start] * 0.29-a0-187-gc893594: Revert "Re-randomize energy temporarily" 10(4 weeks ago, 1 file, 0+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c893594da095 15:16:07 \o/ hype 15:16:21 very excited for the closing attack change 15:19:00 So, hang on, you back up with the monster following until it gets a swing, then that opens a gap? 15:22:09 <10PleasingFungus> pinkbeast: see https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2435 . it's been a while since i worked on this, but iirc it doesn't result in a gap opening 15:22:27 <10PleasingFungus> unless it's a slow-attacking monster like an ogre 15:22:46 <10PleasingFungus> though that version might be fine too - that's sort of how random energy works now, half the time 15:23:10 no, it doesn't leave a gap 15:23:17 Hm. 15:23:58 The wording seems a bit weird. Maybe "adjacently!" or "adjacent to !" would be better? 15:25:01 New branch created: pull/2435 (4 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2435 15:25:01 Branch pull/2435 updated to be equal with a-good-start: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2435 15:25:31 <10PleasingFungus> which wording, sorry? 15:25:31 <10PleasingFungus> oh, "as it moves adjacent"? 15:25:31 attacks %s as %s move%s adjacent! 15:25:31 <10PleasingFungus> reads fine to me 😛 15:25:31 Works for me then :) 15:25:31 Also should it be on the same line as the next "The monster hits you." message? 15:27:52 <10PleasingFungus> hm, should it be? i thought of it as a separate message 15:29:15 I'm not really sure. Since they're semantically linked it makes a bit more sense to me that they'd be on the same line, especially since "The thing attacks as it moves adjacent" is sort-of describing the attack it's about to make. 15:29:19 I'd go either way, though. 15:29:46 04Build failed for 08master @ 32946d4e 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/1872978540 15:31:58 04Build failed for 08master @ 67d208b9 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/1872975163 15:31:58 04Build failed for 08master @ d9437148 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/1872976622 15:31:58 <10PleasingFungus> hm 15:31:58 04Build failed for 08master @ 68506e6f 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/1872977786 15:31:58 <10PleasingFungus> that looks like a real test failure, but i don't remember how to run the relevant test 15:31:58 <10PleasingFungus> oh oops i see it 15:37:09 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-184-g2ef5e92: Remove Amaemon's corpse 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2ef5e920f0e1 15:37:57 03RojjaCebolla02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2431 * 0.29-a0-121-gdde74cc: Fix: No godspeak entry for 'Xom zero miscast effect' 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 11+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/dde74ccfb727 15:37:57 03RojjaCebolla02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2431 * 0.29-a0-122-g1ebcbd7: Fix: Undefined local entry '_ashenzari_heavens_' 10(2 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1ebcbd7e6007 15:46:29 <06advil> I'm not sure you can run that test separately but it's _run_test("mon-data", debug_mondata); in ctest.cc 15:47:51 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.29-a0-184-g2ef5e920f0 (34) 15:48:17 04Build failed for 08master @ 8338fcb6 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/1872984845 15:48:25 04Build failed for 08master @ 15338bc1 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/1872979672 15:57:35 04Build failed for 08master @ e9b396fb 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/1872987938 15:57:35 04Build failed for 08master @ d8e2eab2 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/1872989840 16:02:00 04Build failed for 08master @ 96d55e26 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/1872995246 16:02:30 04Build failed for 08master @ c3e01e4e 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/1873002503 16:02:41 03PleasingFungus02 07[a-good-start] * 0.29-a0-185-gb0a3191: Improve characters' starting kits (Hellmonk) 10(4 weeks ago, 5 files, 72+ 61-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b0a319194c5f 16:02:41 03PleasingFungus02 07[a-good-start] * 0.29-a0-186-gb5248ec: Implement closing attacks 10(5 months ago, 1 file, 66+ 16-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b5248ec427cf 16:02:41 03PleasingFungus02 07[a-good-start] * 0.29-a0-187-gaa24881: Don't recommend pillar dancing 10(2 weeks ago, 1 file, 7+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/aa24881e0b56 16:02:41 03PleasingFungus02 07[a-good-start] * 0.29-a0-188-g2adcfd2: Revert "Re-randomize energy temporarily" 10(4 weeks ago, 1 file, 0+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2adcfd20b39a 16:02:41 03PleasingFungus02 07[a-good-start] * 0.29-a0-189-g9f47ab9: Experimental: closing -> following attacks 10(3 minutes ago, 3 files, 12+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/9f47ab9d3eee 16:03:32 Branch pull/2435 updated to be equal with a-good-start: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2435 16:16:48 04Build failed for 08master @ 59941865 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/1873137318 16:16:48 04Build failed for 08master @ 65f30460 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/1873016745 16:16:48 04Build failed for 08master @ d601ab35 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/1873141370 16:16:48 04Build failed for 08a-good-start @ c893594d 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/1873197735 16:21:46 <10PleasingFungus> hm, did we change something about autopickup in trunk? particleface reports that they're autopicking up all armour (body armour, etc)... can't trivially repro 16:23:11 <10PleasingFungus> they do have an extremely long rc tho 16:23:11 [20 20:25:04] PleasingFungus * 0.29-a0-151-gd943714: Slot name: armour -> body armour (12 days ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d9437148fbfb 16:23:11 bet it breaks some rcs 16:23:13 <10PleasingFungus> great eye 16:23:24 <10PleasingFungus> was really only thinking of it in context of the in-game slot display 16:23:35 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.29-a0-184-g2ef5e920f0 (34) 16:24:23 <10PleasingFungus> i guess i could roll that back but i do like the new behaviour more 16:24:24 <10PleasingFungus> undecided 16:33:09 04Build failed for 08master @ 2ef5e920 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/1873275202 16:42:50 04Build failed for 08a-good-start @ 9f47ab9d 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/1873333015 16:54:12 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-185-gc2a82b1: Re-remove HINT_SEEN_RANDART 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 0+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c2a82b186b8f 17:02:57 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.29-a0-185-gc2a82b186b (34) 17:33:57 maybe later-occurring troves should be weighted away from wanting early consumables? finding a trove in depths which wants 12 potions of heal wounds doesn't really give much space for strategic considerations - i'm never going to be able to get 12 potions of heal wounds at that point, unless I'm scumming extended where they aren't really useful anyway 17:40:59 (my apologies if they are already so weighted) 17:42:17 catern: What if you've _got_ 12? 17:42:58 Pinkbeast: what strategic choice can I make that will allow me to have 12 potions of heal wounds in depths? 17:43:19 "be lucky and get a lot" or "be lucky and never have to use them" are not strategic choices 17:44:07 I seem to have finished 11/48 wins with at least 12 potions of heal wounds. 17:44:25 3-rune wins? 17:44:38 Some were, some aren't 17:45:17 (TBH, I think heal wounds troves are nearly always a bad joke. I don't think I've ever entered one. But I'm not sure that's appreciably _more_ true of late ones) 17:46:46 I certainly don't think having a lot is purely a matter of luck. Most of the _game_ is about avoiding having to quaff heal wounds. 17:46:46 that's the point 17:46:58 if you have avoided quaffing heal wounds, then such a trove is just win-more 17:47:33 You could say that of any consumables trove; another way of putting that is the contents are a reward for good play. 17:48:11 no... if I see an early consumables trove, I can choose consumables or items 17:49:37 I certainly don't think that's true of a heal wounds trove! I don't think my approach would be changed at all by finding a 12-heal-wounds trove on D:1, because arranging at some point to have a dozen HW in reserve is a goal anyway. 17:50:09 <10PleasingFungus> i have a branch sitting around that removes consumable troves 17:50:26 I would start using other resources instead of quaffing heal wounds 17:50:54 <10PleasingFungus> i feel they're very rarely good choices or interesting decisions. but i'm not certain enough to pull the trigger 17:51:00 even if those resources are more rare, e.g. maybe I'd read blink 17:51:47 I think using up a blink for the prospect of maybe dropping 12 HW on a trove is a catastrophically bad idea. 17:53:06 would you open a one-blink-scroll trove? 17:53:06 Sure. But there's no _maybe_ there, and it doesn't also cost me 12 HW, which again, I can never have too many of. 17:53:10 Aaanyway, I've said my bit, and an actual developer's turned up. 17:56:27 <10PleasingFungus> hey, you're a real fork developer! 17:56:49 <10PleasingFungus> s/real/actual 18:19:11 one that does something like makes you either sacrifice something substantial (think Ru-style) or something significant (like the amount of gold you had when you entered the level the trove was on or something similar) 18:20:28 or maybe less-Ru like things like "give up the weapon you've used the most" (alternatively give up the highest price-valued weapon that you have the highest skill in that's in your inventory when you enter the level) 18:20:43 The hard part is avoiding it be gamified/scummed away, hence the "when you enter the level" bit 18:20:59 I'm sure there's better ways of doing that though 18:25:22 or maybe giving up all your piety (*assuming you don't have a janky piety god) 18:26:10 huh, how do janky piety gods work with the existing piety troves? is it just free? kind of annoying 18:26:12 there are already piety troves, I believe 18:26:52 I don't think you get piety troves in that case? 18:27:19 it could generate before you converted 18:27:33 There are piety troves?! o.0 18:27:40 Apparently that was a good idea then 18:27:41 I don't think they decide what to charge though 18:27:43 <09hellmonk> trove rework on the menu? 18:27:56 it was mentioned a few days ago, yeah 18:28:04 I'm personally a fan of rework 18:28:22 <09hellmonk> I think troves would be more interesting if they showed up somewhat earlier and required a more consistent tradeoff 18:28:35 <09hellmonk> by "somewhat earlier" ig I mean the shallow end of current trove depth 18:28:44 that makes sense 18:28:59 <09hellmonk> getting like a D:13 trove is really cool, esp if you can access it 18:29:03 so sort of around early vault or two runes? 18:29:13 oh I've had one of those, it felt pretty awesome not gonna lie 18:29:18 <09hellmonk> yeah somewhere in the post lair dungeon to early vaults range 18:30:08 <09hellmonk> problem with troves has always been that they show up so late that the cost is either trivial or you were never going to do it anyway, with few exceptions 18:31:38 and the contents can be pretty bust 18:31:38 <09hellmonk> yeah, that's also partly because they're so late that you already have a lot of good stuff 18:31:38 Another one could be Oka themed that forces you to one-on-one a mega OOD monster 18:32:12 (You don't get to know ahead of time what the monster is, just something like "You must duel a powerful foe to enter this trove. Enter the arena?" 18:32:14 ) 18:33:19 <09hellmonk> I think I like keeping them as "strategic cost in exchange for items" 18:33:34 <09hellmonk> but need a better strategic cost than giving up a big potion stack 18:34:15 fair 18:34:36 malmutation trove :-) 18:35:18 "Drink five ?muts to enter" 18:35:25 "*double dog dare" 18:35:27 <09hellmonk> in some sense I think the ideal model would be a portal that makes you give up some aspect of your character "build" in exchange for powerful items that might push you in a different direction 18:35:33 <09hellmonk> pretty hard to do that 18:35:37 Yeah 18:36:01 That's sort of what I was thinking with sac-style things for your equipment, but the hard part is making it not chessable 18:36:13 <09hellmonk> so the evaluation is "can I survive giving up this cool thing I have going and adapt to whatever other cool things I get out of it" 18:38:04 <09hellmonk> wonder if a model that forces you to give up stats or skill points works 18:38:04 That sounds too close to Ru was my thinking 18:38:04 <09hellmonk> yeah 18:38:04 But it's also not Ru's fault that they get one of the coolest mechanics of any god 18:38:04 combined trove and Ru rework, remove Ru as a god and put multiple troves which have their old sacrifices for various rewards (power leap, stat boosts, items) 18:38:08 noooo 18:38:12 I love Ru :( 18:38:31 but now you'd be able to worship Ru at all times, even when not worshipping Ru :) 18:39:24 <10PleasingFungus> lol 18:42:15 <10PleasingFungus> it is well known that ru's greatest sac is imposed on the dev team... "sac design space" 18:42:36 sacs have always seemed (mostly) good when I've played 18:42:47 well you can get a big power boost by taking Sacrifice Ru 18:42:49 It's mostly really good ones and a few "meh, not too interesting" ones 18:42:53 haha 18:45:34 <10PleasingFungus> there was a long period, many years, when crawl god design treated conducts as core 18:45:58 <09hellmonk> conducts can be good but old god conducts were mostly kinda scuffed 18:46:05 <10PleasingFungus> yeah 18:46:32 <10PleasingFungus> qazlal and old dith definitely came out of that way of thinking 18:46:33 <09hellmonk> it has to be a pretty big conduct and really modify the playstyle imo 18:46:48 <10PleasingFungus> then ru came along and ate every plausible conduct 18:46:52 <09hellmonk> the qaz "conduct" is actually kind of decent I think 18:46:56 <10PleasingFungus> sure 18:47:04 <09hellmonk> whereas the dith one was bad 18:47:06 <10PleasingFungus> old dith was less excthiting 18:47:08 <10PleasingFungus> yeah 18:47:27 <09hellmonk> didn't modify gameplay enough, just locked you out of things semi-arbitrarily 18:47:34 <09hellmonk> does new yred still hate holy wrath 18:47:47 <10PleasingFungus> no idea 18:48:32 <09hellmonk> good god conducts are another one that's kind of interesting. It does lock you out of a bunch of fairly arbitrary stuff, but it locks out of enough of it that it works pretty well. 18:49:29 <09hellmonk> esp for something thats been around forever 18:50:55 <10PleasingFungus> helps that good conducts have been slowly eroded 18:50:55 <10PleasingFungus> and polished 18:50:55 <10PleasingFungus> eg tso anti stab conduct 18:50:55 <09hellmonk> yeah, the old version of the stab one was awful 18:50:55 <09hellmonk> and no poison made tso legitimately worse than atheist in the earlygame for a long time 18:52:01 <10PleasingFungus> lol i forgot about no poison 18:52:11 <10PleasingFungus> no eating intelligent beings was a good one 18:52:39 <09hellmonk> love to starve in orc 19:26:08 hmm 19:26:17 i did manage to save up 12 heal wounds potions for that trove 19:26:21 maybe it's not so bad after all 19:26:55 (it's also more interestingly Strategic since I'm playing DD) 19:29:19 <10PleasingFungus> i would absolutely not buy that trove 19:29:19 <10PleasingFungus> think you are very unlikely to get something more useful than 12 hw potions for a DD 19:29:19 <10PleasingFungus> but if you do open it, you have to report back 🙂 19:29:19 ^ 19:29:19 dang, I was going to just remain silent, since I did in fact open it, and... 19:29:19 it sucked 19:29:19 weapon trove with no useful artifacts 19:29:59 <10PleasingFungus> rip 19:30:02 well that gives a bit more evidence that the risk-reward for troves is a bit whack :p 19:31:28 <10PleasingFungus> well known for many years 19:31:32 <10PleasingFungus> finite dev time 19:31:36 <10PleasingFungus> but maybe in 0.29 🙂 19:31:49 game must be PERFECT >:(((( 19:31:54 I paid $0,000 for it!! 19:53:32 03PleasingFungus02 07[a-good-start] * 0.29-a0-190-g89778ae: Revert "Experimental: closing -> following attacks" 10(31 seconds ago, 3 files, 10+ 12-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/89778ae79098 19:54:25 Branch pull/2435 updated to be equal with a-good-start: 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2435 19:55:59 if you want to be extra D&D-y you could also do opportunity attack, but I honestly like following attacks a lot better (since it better implies exactly when it happens) 19:56:12 <10PleasingFungus> following attack unfortunately doesn't work for mechanical reasons 19:56:34 oh, just realized that was a revert. Rip. 19:57:02 <10PleasingFungus> if you're backing away from an enemy, "following attacks" (only triggered when the enemy steps into your previous space) mean you want to zig-zag back and forth 19:57:04 <10PleasingFungus> which is goofy 19:57:06 Yup 19:57:26 just increase monster damage 16%, time to get revenge for double damage 19:58:56 Maybe something where an attack is triggered at 1/6 change for a move from -a-/-@-/--- to any of -a-/---/@@@ 19:59:26 (I'm sure that makes sense) 20:06:31 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-186-g6546220: Give Amaemon a signature weapon 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/65462203265f 20:06:31 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.29-a0-187-ga23d963: Give Vv a quote (ebering) 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 15+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a23d9638d59b 20:14:12 04Build failed for 08a-good-start @ 89778ae7 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/1873966939 20:17:42 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.29-a0-187-ga23d9638d5 (34) 21:00:48 digging the new uniques, already ran into them a few times 21:01:10 So far I'm 1-1 with Amaemon :) 21:01:25 ??amaemon 21:01:25 amaemon[1/1]: Mid-game demonspawn unique that summons scorpions and uses concentrate venom to turn their poison sting into curare. Has an orange demon 'companion' that he can do the same trick with. Wields a demon whip that might be Snakebite. New in 0.29. 21:01:58 im up for snakebite generation increases. it was killer with manifold assault 21:02:10 it's only a 1% chance to be Snakebite 21:02:42 ive wom poker hands with those odds before 21:03:02 I once won a game of poker against total strangers on a vacation once 21:03:18 That's my best gambling story I have. Probably when I peaked in life, too. 21:05:31 this was in a tournament and i didnt cash 21:09:37