00:54:07 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.28-a0-1518-gbe868bca14 00:59:50 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.28-a0-1518-gbe868bca14 (34) 01:32:10 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-4506-g453a05f5f4 04:22:37 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-4506-g453a05f5f4 07:29:46 New branch created: pull/2365 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2365 07:29:50 03tensorflower02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2365 * 0.28-a0-1519-g69e78a2: pseudo_book_of_inferno 10(2 hours ago, 9 files, 36+ 8-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/69e78a2ac184 08:18:56 what if player noise was removed, but monster noise was kept? 08:19:00 so that if you want to lure monsters, you have to actually facecheck them - you can't hide in a bucket shouting "over here!". but when monsters are in LoS, they can still shout or make combat sounds, bringing more 08:23:48 <10PleasingFungus> bold suggestion 08:24:13 <10PleasingFungus> seems like it’d make spells like mephitic cloud or lightning bolt much stronger 08:24:24 <10PleasingFungus> a big part of their downside is the noise 08:24:51 spells are the hard part yeah 08:25:04 maybe they only make noise if they hit something? or if something's in LoS? 08:26:27 <10PleasingFungus> mm 08:26:27 <10PleasingFungus> now i’m fireballing plants? or my own spammals? :p 08:27:03 <10PleasingFungus> in general, also seems quite hard to prevent player actions from making noise, on a technical level. there are an awful lot of ways to make noise 08:27:33 <10PleasingFungus> suspect that a better ‘solution’ to luring would be to have a tighter clock 08:28:06 <10PleasingFungus> so that you could still lure, and it’d be right sometimes, but there’d be a real cost 09:09:01 enemies only? (oh, the many uses for hellmonk's bats) 09:21:52 <10PleasingFungus> hellmonk's bats? 09:23:41 !learn add Hellmonk's_Bat A bat lured from d1 used for tediously optimal tricks that require an enemy. Not typically found in boxes with radioactive isotopes. 09:23:41 Hellmonk's Bat[1/1]: A bat lured from d1 used for tediously optimal tricks that require an enemy. Not typically found in boxes with radioactive isotopes. 09:25:04 <10PleasingFungus> heh 09:25:22 <10PleasingFungus> think that predates hellmonk, but it's a good name 09:31:34 i wonder whether there was a version of crawl where gozagold was based on current depth, so people brought all their enemies downstairs 09:32:12 <10PleasingFungus> don't believe so 09:32:22 <10PleasingFungus> there was a version where gozag shops were based on depth 09:32:25 <10PleasingFungus> but that's quite different 10:30:22 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.28-a0-1518-gbe868bc (34) 10:39:46 man, the ncurses maintainer is something 10:41:00 Wasn't there some kind of Eric Raymond catastrophe there? 10:43:06 seems plausible but I'm just looking at his written output 10:43:22 e.g. the novella on why S-lang is terrible in excruciating detail 10:44:51 ah, here's a novella that seems to relate to esr and licensing issues: https://invisible-island.net/ncurses/ncurses-license.html 10:44:51 in fairness, that's a lot shorter than the S-lang one 10:51:12 <09hellmonk> for the hypothetical lure an enemy for noise thing you would probably keep a howler monkey instead, bats are too quiet 10:51:12 <03wheals> i support anything that leads to the player having a pet monkey 10:54:39 <10PleasingFungus> @hellmonk i think the implication was that you'd meph the bat, in this world where player spells only made noise if an enemy was visible 10:54:51 <10PleasingFungus> Meph The Bat might be my 0.28 clan name, fyi 10:55:10 <09hellmonk> but then the bat dies, suboptimal tbh 10:55:41 <09hellmonk> best practice would be to find a low will high hp enemy, hibernate it next to a corner, then cast lrd 10:55:42 <10PleasingFungus> i never remember if player meph does impact damage 10:57:36 <09hellmonk> more realistically you'd lure a howler monkey or a vault sentinel for situations where you wanted noise 10:57:36 <09hellmonk> there's a very easy solution to that though 10:57:36 <09hellmonk> it rhymes with "disprove werebears" 10:57:36 <10PleasingFungus> werebears are real! you will NEVER disprove them 10:57:36 Meph The Bat? That was a band at my highschool. 10:57:43 <05kate> the cloud does something like 1-2 damage for staying in it, i keep meaning to remove that. it has a good hack where it gets treated as a harmless cloud if you have clarity and stand in it (even though you still take damage), unless you have 2hp or less in which case it's suddenly no longer harmless 10:58:00 <10PleasingFungus> wow 10:58:10 <10PleasingFungus> unbelievable meph nerfs, or something 11:10:56 <10PleasingFungus> good diff in my current commit - When set, at game start, autopickup is forced on (as per the \ - menu) for the player's starting ammunition type (including stones - for Earth Elementalists and arrows for Transmuters). 11:39:10 <10PleasingFungus> uh 11:39:25 <10PleasingFungus> 10 rune sprint is really something 11:39:26 <10PleasingFungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/932343303385526342/unknown.png 11:40:07 <10PleasingFungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/932343474072715284/unknown.png 11:45:44 <10PleasingFungus> crawl trivia: crawl has four different shooting range vaults 11:46:25 <10PleasingFungus> arguably five 11:46:43 <10PleasingFungus> the majority were made by one person 12:01:34 <10PleasingFungus> correction, 6 12:17:42 I wonder who that could possibly be 12:22:31 <10PleasingFungus> "it could be any one of us! it could be you. it could be me!" 12:25:30 FR: Sequell command called !plsnerf that pulls the user's last cause of death and sends "please nerf $killer, it's op" 12:25:43 This would likely make me start playing webtiles just so I could use it 12:27:15 <10PleasingFungus> cute 12:27:15 <10PleasingFungus> would be easy to make, i think 14:20:21 <12ebering> seems tough to balance before release 14:20:55 <12ebering> is this 0.29 plans 14:21:24 New branch created: out-of-ammo (7 commits) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/out-of-ammo 14:21:27 03PleasingFungus02 07[out-of-ammo] * 0.28-a0-1507-g0452769: Remove launcher ammo acquirement 10(29 hours ago, 1 file, 9+ 37-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/0452769d8a22 14:21:27 03PleasingFungus02 07[out-of-ammo] * 0.28-a0-1508-gdfec86f: Remove launcher ammo 10(28 hours ago, 49 files, 470+ 1427-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/dfec86f98560 14:21:27 03PleasingFungus02 07[out-of-ammo] * 0.28-a0-1509-gb7a685e: Allow firing with v 10(4 hours ago, 4 files, 135+ 38-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b7a685e041b5 14:21:27 03PleasingFungus02 07[out-of-ammo] * 0.28-a0-1510-g5b3c740: Adjust item gen for ammo removal 10(3 hours ago, 2 files, 5+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5b3c740bacfe 14:21:27 03PleasingFungus02 07[out-of-ammo] * 0.28-a0-1511-gca05c2a: Remove ammo from vaults, sprints & the tutorial 10(2 hours ago, 30 files, 78+ 94-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ca05c2a47730 14:21:27 03PleasingFungus02 07[out-of-ammo] * 0.28-a0-1512-gc5896a8: Adjust ranged weapon stats post-ammo 10(42 minutes ago, 1 file, 10+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c5896a807943 14:21:27 03PleasingFungus02 07[out-of-ammo] * 0.28-a0-1513-g68feb82: Remove the short sword from the hunter start 10(37 minutes ago, 3 files, 5+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/68feb8263233 14:22:40 <10PleasingFungus> shruggerino 14:23:11 <10PleasingFungus> i initially assumed it would be a 0.29 thing 14:23:14 <10PleasingFungus> and then i finished writing it now 14:23:19 <10PleasingFungus> so i'm undecided 14:24:17 whoa, big changes 14:29:38 <12ebering> I think prob best to hold off (as much as launcher wn rolls have bothered my gut) 14:30:14 <10PleasingFungus> sure 14:30:26 <10PleasingFungus> is this feature freeze..!? 14:30:53 No, it's a butterfly 14:32:01 <08nicolae> hey i just had a great idea for a vault with a bunch of ammo in it and OH MY GODDDDDDD 14:33:01 <12ebering> something like it. the freezing temperature of bigger changes is higher p: 14:35:30 * perryprog sublimates your feature freeze 14:38:08 <10PleasingFungus> @nicolae feel free to glance over those vault changes; i'm sure i mangled some 14:38:17 <08nicolae> eh they're probably fine 14:38:18 <10PleasingFungus> very pleased about adding orbs to the orpp of zot, though 14:38:46 <08nicolae> nice 14:38:52 04Build failed for 08out-of-ammo @ 68feb826 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/1705298553 14:39:05 good one 14:40:18 <08nicolae> they're probably fine as is, the changes to the firing range shop look fine 14:43:00 yeah, that feels like something not to merge so late in the cycle 14:44:29 btw it seems really strange that launchers shouldn't interact with the quiver system 14:44:37 previously they were the only thing *with* ammo that did 14:44:52 maybe I'm misunderstanding what that commit does though, I just read the commit message 14:46:07 also firing launchers with `v` works now, no? 14:48:17 `v` means use current weapon with targeting 14:48:17 aka CMD_PRIMARY_ATTACK 14:50:05 <10PleasingFungus> advil: yes, v is how you fire them now 14:50:38 <10PleasingFungus> i copied the melee_action implementation and tweaked it a bit 14:50:52 <10PleasingFungus> it seemed extremely nice to be able to ax all of the weird quiver-changing stuff that happened when you wield a ranged weapon 14:51:17 <10PleasingFungus> oops, webtiles build broke 14:57:40 Eh, nothing of value was lost 14:58:50 <10PleasingFungus> anyway, there are still things with ammo that interact with the quiver system (i.e. throwables) 14:59:00 Was taking the weapons away from hunters with javelins or rocks an oversight? 14:59:25 <10PleasingFungus> uh 14:59:27 <10PleasingFungus> yes 14:59:30 <10PleasingFungus> oops 14:59:56 03PleasingFungus02 07[out-of-ammo] * 0.28-a0-1514-gce359e1: Remove webtiles launcher quiver 10(2 minutes ago, 5 files, 2+ 22-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/ce359e13f484 15:01:08 <08nicolae> eh, fuck em 15:07:31 <10PleasingFungus> ooh, good new lore: if you start as earth elementalist, the game will ensure that the a slot is free so that you can swap from stones to a weapon 15:07:35 <10PleasingFungus> by new i mean old 15:07:38 <10PleasingFungus> by old i mean gone 15:08:10 rip 15:08:40 wait, does this mean no stone ammo requirement for EE 15:08:50 because that's an amazing change 15:08:51 <10PleasingFungus> you don't have to wield stones to cast sandblast 15:08:52 <10PleasingFungus> as of uh 15:08:58 <10PleasingFungus> some years ago 15:09:07 I mean just having them for out-of-ammo 15:11:00 <10PleasingFungus> ? 15:11:02 <10PleasingFungus> i don't understand, sorry 15:11:15 <10PleasingFungus> i'm not changing anything about how EE functions 15:11:21 <10PleasingFungus> just removing some antique inventory slot assignment code 15:11:40 The removal of launcher ammo? 15:12:10 Stones aren't just launcher ammo, so they haven't been removed. 15:12:20 Yeah, I just looked at the commit and realized that 15:12:27 Sorry for the confusion 15:33:04 For what it's worth, I also notice that the load code doesn't remove unusable ammunition, and the "recognised items" list includes them. 15:33:59 I'm wondering, though: given that Crawl development seems to be geared towards reducing the number of things you have to keep in inventory, is the number of inventory slots likely to fall at some point? 15:36:28 That would seem at odds with the thrust to - if I understand it correctly - relieve inventory pressure 15:42:37 <10PleasingFungus> we usually don't remove removed items 15:42:59 <10PleasingFungus> if you load up an old save your inventory will be full of removed scroll, removed potion, removed food 15:43:02 <10PleasingFungus> it's good times 15:43:30 at least we don't have bag of holding item insertion/removal juggling 15:43:43 <10PleasingFungus> i'll take a look at the recognized items menu, thanks! 15:43:51 <10PleasingFungus> perryprog: gotta play, uh, kimchicrawl for that 15:44:01 sounds terrifying 15:44:07 I think kimchi is just "kimchi" 15:44:20 (Omega's backpack is worth a look, too...) 15:44:27 Yes, sorry; I just looked for MI_NEEDLE references and went from there. 15:45:55 though there is a certain satisfaction that comes with knowing keyboard item management commands so well that you can just slam through a bunch of menus at once where your thoughts practically translate into game commands 15:45:55 (Dwarf Fortress is one game that gives that vibe super strongly by the way) 15:45:55 Damn it, pictures of this year's lego Christmas cake are not yet online, and it's Boatmurdered 15:46:23 oh no way 15:46:37 man Boatmurdered is one of my favorite "internet reads" of all time 15:57:35 03PleasingFungus02 07[out-of-ammo] * 0.28-a0-1515-gcc32b1e: Remove throwing weapon hunter start (Aliscans) 10(10 minutes ago, 8 files, 8+ 104-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/cc32b1e47e7f 15:57:35 03PleasingFungus02 07[out-of-ammo] * 0.28-a0-1516-g3b69f83: Remove launcher ammo from the \ menu (Aliscans) 10(2 minutes ago, 1 file, 7+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3b69f8332f2d 16:24:34 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.28-a0-1518-gbe868bca14 (34) 19:30:00 03hellmonk02 07* 0.28-a0-1519-gc307741: feat: tweak layout_spider_delve 10(40 minutes ago, 1 file, 16+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c307741d3ee0 19:30:00 03hellmonk02 07* 0.28-a0-1520-gc3277d3: tweak some spider monsters 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 6+ 6-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c3277d375940 19:32:59 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.28-a0-1520-gc3277d3759 (34) 20:09:49 <10PleasingFungus> @hellmonk https://www.reddit.com/r/dcss/comments/s50ryk/comment/hswgb0k/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 20:09:49 <10PleasingFungus> linking because of the first sentence 20:20:11 I don't think I have any nuSpider deaths, weirdly 20:20:25 And I tend to die a lot in the range of D:4–first/second rune 20:23:23 (Actually that's not true, I had a Asterion death in spider but that was only today) 21:02:41 <09gammafunk> !splatratio devteamnp 21:02:47 <04Cerebot> Percent of recentish chars with XL>=17 killed for devteamnp: 0/1x advil [0.00%], 0/2x dying5ever [0.00%], 0/13x gammafunk [0.00%], 1/69x elliptic [1.45%], 1/7x PleasingFungus [14.29%], 15/69x ebering [21.74%], 2/8x Lasty [25.00%], 8/22x wormsofcant [36.36%], 37/58x semitonal [63.79%], 10/14x nicolae [71.43%], 18/24x sage [75.00%], 6/7x wheals [85.71%], 1/1x amalloy [100.00%], 1/1x Medar [100.00%]... 21:04:06 <09gammafunk> Need a version bump to bump those top two imposters 21:18:17 <09hellmonk> stay jelly of my perfect 100% never died splatratio 23:03:20 <11nikheizen> the perfect splat ratio here is elliptic's 1/69 you joker 23:35:08 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.28-a0-1520-gc3277d3759 (34) 23:56:17 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.28-a0-1520-gc3277d3759 23:59:30 03kate-02 07* 0.28-a0-1521-g870370a: Remove Mephitic Cloud's damage 10(25 minutes ago, 5 files, 6+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/870370a84a14 23:59:30 03kate-02 07* 0.28-a0-1522-g8550a1e: Mark confusion beams as harmless to monsters with clarity 10(13 minutes ago, 1 file, 21+ 15-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/8550a1e9b9ee 23:59:30 03kate-02 07* 0.28-a0-1523-g5f3ffaa: Let monsters use spell_logic for zapping wands 10(11 minutes ago, 3 files, 25+ 15-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5f3ffaac98d8 23:59:30 03kate-02 07* 0.28-a0-1524-ge72afd5: Don't let monsters try to re-polymorph a polymorphed player 10(7 minutes ago, 1 file, 12+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e72afd5fc622