00:36:49 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.28-a0-1510-gd0f6b136d3 (34) 00:54:20 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.28-a0-1510-gd0f6b136d3 01:35:06 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-4506-g453a05f5f4 02:18:11 -!- allbery_b is now known as geekosaur 04:23:55 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-4506-g453a05f5f4 04:30:53 Croases (L19 DrDe) Crash caused by signal #11: Segmentation fault (Vaults:2) 04:36:27 Hello. Is there a way to remove the new default cursor highligting in the menus (console)? It hurts my eyes. https://i.imgur.com/qOYUt8V.png 04:36:46 Croases (L19 DrDe) Crash caused by signal #11: Segmentation fault (Vaults:3) 04:38:24 tiobot: I haven't been following this mess closely but try setting "allow_extended_colours = false" 04:42:44 Didn't help. Anyway, I mean removing the highlighting altogether. Now if you open the menus, the cursor is enabled by default. Old menus look like this and I would've very much liked it to be like this again: https://i.imgur.com/5a8kN6d.png 04:42:46 Croases (L20 DrDe) Crash caused by signal #11: Segmentation fault (Vaults:3) 04:43:23 tiobot: I am familiar with the appearance of console crawl 04:45:17 Sorry, I posted it just in case someone else, who has pushed this change and is obviously not that familiar, sees this conversation later :) 04:46:01 iirc they did that deliberately because the first item is selected whether the highlight shows or not 04:46:11 and this can be somewhat confusing 04:46:14 AFAIK almost all the developers play console 04:50:48 I hope there's a setting to roll this back, because it really hurts my eyes, and being unable to scroll the menus with space or arrows is a very bad change too. 04:52:09 no setting, you'd have to roll back the commit and rebuild 04:52:44 they're trying to make all menus behave consistently instead of having different kinds of menus for different things, I think 04:53:41 Consistently bad, heh. Guess forks really are the answer, then. Thank you for your responses! 04:55:19 but you're the second one I've seen who's complained about it. conceivably they just roll that change back 04:55:19 but I don't think any devs are around at this time of day so we'd have to wait and see 04:59:52 There has been some discussion of it, I think there's an awareness it looks weird 05:54:22 hmmmmmmm https://i.imghurr.com/e/81YLViMtKU.png 05:56:05 That sewer map selects paths at random. Dig it out you just get more of the same. 05:59:48 huh, are branch vaults not reported in the morgue? 06:00:07 Pinkbeast I'm referring to the monsters that are part of an inaccessible part of the sewer 06:00:11 which seems... wrong 06:00:23 no, that's expected 06:00:48 there is no way to say "generate random paths", just "generate random openings" 06:01:00 oh, that's a shame 06:01:06 so you get a bunch of sealed-off paths in that particular sewer vault 06:01:55 perryprog: Yes, I know you are referring to that. 06:02:13 Also don't think you can dig in sewer 06:02:32 !vault sewer_co_cracked_pipes 06:02:32 Can't find sewer_co_cracked_pipes. 06:02:35 I don't recognise icon soup well enough to tell rock from stone 06:02:50 !source sewer.des:1189 06:02:50 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/dat/des/portals/sewer.des#L1189 06:02:55 yeah, oh well 06:06:34 hm, actually I think you could do that in lua. it'd just be a lot of sllow lua code they wouldn't want to run on a server, and there's no way to mark a vault as local-only 06:08:22 I mean, you couuuuld always implement procedural dungeon generation in dlua and use that 06:08:34 which wouldn't be too slow but would be ridiculously, ridiculously overkill 06:09:00 Literally writing procedural dungeon generation in the scripting language of a procedural dungeon generator 06:19:40 <03w​heals> mmm, i don't think it would be that hard to change it so the unused path is filled in 06:21:16 <03w​heals> you'd just have to make each path use a different letter for the open space, and then SHUFFLE the whole paths rather than just the entrances to the paths 06:23:37 <03w​heals> i've hardly touched .des syntax though, so an actual vault maker could weigh in here 07:01:45 So I just found this out (much to my surprise shortly before death) that when a description says "It can hit for up to 17 damage plus its giant spiked club" that that doesn't actually mean it can hit up to 17 damage... 07:01:45 Is there really not an in-game way of seeing what the actual total damage of an attack from that creature would see? 07:05:00 <05k​ate> it's probably non-trivial to add weapon damage to that display, brands etc start making it very complicated 07:05:24 <05k​ate> would certainly be desirable but I think that's why it doesn't exist yet 07:05:42 <12e​bering> tiobot: the cursor colour is controlled by putty settings, there are two settings you can try to improve it. one is to change the highlight colour (sorry not familiar with the exact location of the colour), two is to set the terminal type to putty-256color in putty settings and use the RC settings allow_extended_colours = true and bold_brightens_foreground = force (use the second option if you like bright colours also being bold as part 07:05:42 of the crawl experience) 07:06:15 <08w​ormsofcan> what is spellbinder's max damage, anyway 07:06:16 <12e​bering> tiobot: also, your remark that "consistinetly for the worse guess forks really are the way to go" is super rude and unwelcome 07:06:22 consider that the monster db is built by essentially rolling a hundred or so monsters and figuring nax or avg or etc. of their stats 07:06:40 *max 07:08:04 also I noticed this 07:08:04 Still, knowing the maximum possible damage of a monster would be tremendously useful 07:08:04 Or of your own weapon 07:08:04 @?? ogre ; giant spiked club 07:08:04 ogre (07O) | Spd: 10 (atk: 130%) | HD: 5 | HP: 23-32 | AC/EV: 1/6 | Dam: 17 | 10items, 10doors | Res: 06will(20) | Corpse | XP: 118 | Sz: Large | Int: human. 07:08:04 shouldn't Dam there take an unbranded gsc into account? 07:08:04 I like how Brogue, for instance, will tell you "X can kill you in a max of 7 hits, you can kill X in a max of 12 hits" 07:08:16 <12e​bering> making monster better isn't an ultra priority, the in game descriptions are another story 07:08:20 <08w​ormsofcan> it's generally more misleading to reveal player max damage due to the amount of dice multiplication that happens 07:08:37 <05k​ate> brogue's numbers are more tailored for that kind of thing to be useful, unsure it would make any sense for crawl 07:08:51 ^ True, but still, I do wish we could have that thing 07:08:59 At least for monsters 07:09:12 For players I can see how it'd be misleading and all 07:09:49 yeh but I thought it used to do that 07:09:49 <12e​bering> in brogue you can't roll 0 dmg 07:10:02 <12e​bering> monster doesn't include weapon damage 07:10:21 <12e​bering> for stats that are randomized it rolls 100 or so of that stat and averages 07:10:26 <12e​bering> but thats HP and XP 07:10:34 <12e​bering> it just reads the enum for other fields 07:14:35 ya, it's really not easy to do a giant statistical dump of all the minute variables at play in a one-sentence jawn 07:15:21 <12e​bering> It is though, mdonais pointed it out to me: tell the player what they want to know, work all the way to the conclusion 07:17:30 <12e​bering> for player weapons this means computing sentences for the weapon desc like "With your current skills this weapon (more/less reliably) does (more/less) damage than your current weapon when it hits. You would be (more/less) accurate than your current weapon. Your would have an attack delay of about n.n (that could be improved with further training). 07:17:51 I mean the information along the lines of "chance of zero damage", "std deviation", "damage range within X percentile", "damage per second (including misses)" is technically all something someone could know, even if that's 1% of 1% of the player baes 07:17:54 base* 07:20:55 <12e​bering> sure. but are those things helpful to know 07:21:04 <12e​bering> compared to the 3 sentence blurb I just wrote 07:21:07 Right 07:57:17 <09h​ellmonk> Choko reliably deals bread ration more damage with sultana less accuracy 07:58:38 <12e​bering> choko beard 08:04:56 <10P​leasingFungus> i like the idea of comparison; unsure about narrative vs cool color coded stat blocks and tables, like my monster desc proposal 08:04:56 <10P​leasingFungus> but i suppose that’s something i could implement later, once we were able to say whether one thing did more damage than another 08:24:38 I suppose "can in principle one-shot" is an optimally useful thing to know 08:28:28 tiobot: change is gonna happen 08:28:49 I'm wiling to take feedback but "roll it all back" is not that 08:30:10 *willing 08:30:10 also part of the problem is that putty is awful by default 08:30:10 which I will to the best of my abilities work around, but I refuse to take full responsibility for that 08:31:30 (also, space has its prev behavior in every menu except drop/pickup; pgup/pgdn/home/end also work) 08:42:59 oh btw I am a console only player 08:42:59 since there seemed to be some sort of claim that only someone unfamiliar with it could make this change 09:53:16 clearly the solution is to make console look good in normal terminals, and **even worse** in putty 09:53:16 then y'all don't have to figure out people's putty settings for them anymore, they can just go away or use a better terminal emulator ^_^ 09:54:00 prior art: websites that stopped supporting internet explorer 09:59:37 I think for 8 color mode I may make the hover invert bright colors that aren't an exact match to the hover color, or at least provide a high contrast option that does something like this 10:00:02 I'm also not utterly opposed to hiding all hovers by default in console, but so far no one has convinced me that that's a *good* idea 10:11:56 07PleasingFungus02 * 0.19-a0-65-gd89315a: Add complaining comments 10(6 years ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d89315a7a365 10:11:56 %git d89315a7a365c464aadda8bf6cc205c623b91d9b 10:12:13 either those comments are wrong or I'm confused 10:12:37 I guess the odds of PF remembering the details after 6 years is slim tho 10:14:42 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.28-a0-1510-gd0f6b13 (34) 10:22:46 <10P​leasingFungus> advil: i absolutely don't remember anything about this 🙂 10:22:54 haha 10:23:03 the disadvantages of multi-year git 10:24:35 <10P​leasingFungus> assume the parent commit is relevant 10:24:35 I'm pretty sure that those lines of code are resetting the text color for formatted strings with unbalanced color tags (specifically more open than closed) 10:24:35 <09h​ellmonk> Good comments 10:27:56 <10P​leasingFungus> knowing me, adding "xxx this does nothing" instead of actually removing the code meant i couldn't figure out what it did, but wasn't confident enough that it literally did nothing to remove it 10:45:49 yeah that was in sequence with some other commits tweaking the fs tag parsing code 10:45:59 so it's relevant, but I still think that does something 10:46:23 I'm going to add some color diagnostic stuff so maybe I can just test directly 10:56:41 what I haven't actually figured out about that code is why this stack tracking isn't done inside parse_string1 10:58:17 there must be some interaction with the multi-line stuff I haven't fathomed 15:14:42 Gilette (L20 GnEE) ASSERT(_valid()) in 'ray.cc' at line 107 failed. (Vaults:2) 15:17:18 !crashlog 15:17:20 24182. Gilette, XL20 GnEE, T:65254 (milestone): https://underhound.eu/crawl/morgue/Gilette/crash-Gilette-20220114-221441.txt 16:04:03 <10P​leasingFungus> hurray, crashlogs are back! 16:24:42 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.28-a0-1510-gd0f6b136d3 (34) 16:24:43 we should implement a corporate strategy where we re-break crashlogs so we can claim there are no crashes 22:36:49 <09h​ellmonk> seems like the big open spider layout is caused by ngb_max rolling a high value (6+) when top also rolls relatively high 22:36:49 <09h​ellmonk> going to tweak this sometime in the next couple days 23:47:13 <05k​ate> hmm, should oka duel check if the abyss exists somewhere on the level stack when you win 23:48:00 <05k​ate> probably spending a bunch of piety to kill something outside the abyss and get a bit of actual xp for one monster at a time is not really an issue but it's sort of funny 23:49:38 <05k​ate> (also i'm working on fixing the thing where you get progress towards ru sacrifices/ash curses in the abyss but get no piety from them, oops. ash curses should at least recalculate when you leave but i hope nobody gives up a hand in the abyss)