00:59:49 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.28-a0-1412-gf95308ed99 (34) 01:40:31 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-4506-g453a05f5f4 04:23:16 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-4506-g453a05f5f4 04:45:36 <12ZureaL> Just for awareness, I am traveling tomorrow and won't be back until Wednesday, taking my youngest out to California for a Fencing tournament. If there are any issues with CBRO, Advil and Johstein both have shell access, but if its something more serious, it may take me some time to get online and have a look. 04:48:03 New branch created: pull/2339 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2339 04:48:03 03robertxgray02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2339 * 0.28-a0-1390-g3a7d5c3: Check negative energy resistance when casting vampiric drain The game doesn't warn the player when casting vampiric drain on natural monsters with immunity to negative energy (Josephine). 10(17 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3a7d5c3767cb 09:32:34 Huh, so with the shield changes there's no longer a given skill level for shields that will remove the penalties for attack speed? 09:49:18 <10PleasingFungus> the skill level is now 27 09:49:24 <10PleasingFungus> so, yes 10:32:03 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.28-a0-1412-gf95308e (34) 12:28:07 Hm, should lignification/tree form give you reaching? 12:30:13 It kinda makes sense if it could (cause you're a tree) and it'd vastly improve its viability when going against polearm users while in treeform 12:30:33 <10PleasingFungus> note that you canonically don't change size when becoming a tree 12:30:44 <10PleasingFungus> ("canonically" = "in the code") 12:30:55 <10PleasingFungus> so there's no particular reason from a "makes sense" point of view that you'd get reaching 12:30:58 oh, fair point 12:31:03 <10PleasingFungus> in terms of complexity, reaching would of course be higher 12:31:23 <10PleasingFungus> and in terms of balance and interesting decision making, i'm not sure that it's especially good or valuable to have treeform be good against polearm users 12:31:30 <10PleasingFungus> could be wrong on that last, of course 12:31:45 Well, currently treeform against polearm users is just "get hit a lot until transformation ends" 12:31:55 <12ebering> if you want to fight a pole armer as a tree there's spells (beckoning) and potions (attraction) 12:32:01 <12ebering> it's a dangerous potion 12:32:03 I don't mean it should be /good/ against polearms, just not patently helpless 12:32:22 <12ebering> it's exactly supposed to be patently helpless against ranged attacks unless you've got one too 12:32:46 I get that for "real" ranged attacks for sure; just not sure if that makes as much sense for polearms. 12:32:48 <10PleasingFungus> why shouldn't it be patently helpless? (aside from all of the wands, tools, etc that you can still use in treeform) 12:32:53 <10PleasingFungus> i don't understand, sorry 12:32:59 Well, in the early-game it's a really interesting potion 12:33:22 <12ebering> did you recently die to a pole armer while in tree form by any chance? 12:33:24 It gives you the opportunity to have significantly better melee performance and strong resists (rPois especially) while also guaranteeing you must commit to the fight 12:33:27 No, lol 12:33:31 But fair question 12:34:32 I think it's a cool potion for the early game with a great risk/reward, but I think it's reasonable to allow also taking on polearm opponents, especially since an all-melee band (like gnolls) will typically have a mix of non-polearms and polearms while having little ranged 12:35:14 And I'm also assuming that if you're using it in this way, it's not unlikely that you /don't/ have wands or pots of attraction, etc. 12:36:55 (or, indeed, a polearm) 12:37:06 that too, heh 12:37:44 I admit it's pretty vexing when a potion of desperation against a halberd gnoll turns out to be a tree potion, but such is Crawl 12:38:18 Yeah, that's the one thing I'm unsure about since it does make sense for it to be a bad pot in cases like those where you're random quaffing 12:38:34 (Plus, fighting as a tree � la whomping willow is pretty cool) 12:53:30 <09gammafunk> > since an all-melee band (like gnolls) will typically have a mix of non-polearms and polearms while having little ranged Don't think you want to tune the potion to be good in all types of situations. Why does it have to be as good when fighting gnoll bands specifically? It's good in a very large number of scenarios as it is. Also, when fighting polearm users, you can often find a los-breaking corner to set up the fight and let them 12:53:30 come around said corner to become adjacent, so it's not even true that you're always helpless vs a polearm user if you have no ranged attack 13:02:56 Yeah, that's a good point 13:05:49 You do have me convinced but I think we can agree that rule of cool definitely is on my side here ;) 13:32:47 <09gammafunk> Well if we're talking cool, we're talking a potion that turns you into an ice statue 13:37:02 nice 14:33:12 Does the old curse-means-can't-remove thing exist anywhere? I'm refactoring some puton/take off code as part of a bug fix I was going to PR, and I noticed that remove_ring has "It's stuck to you!" as a thing in it 14:33:23 !source item-use.cc:2261 14:33:24 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/item-use.cc#L2261 14:39:06 <10PleasingFungus> for ash, surely? 14:40:05 isn't ash more you take it off and lose piety now? 14:40:31 <10PleasingFungus> you have to use an ability to do that 14:40:37 <10PleasingFungus> maybe it could be simplified 14:42:14 Ah—yup, that's it 14:42:25 I thought shatter the chains would activate automatically when you tried, but nope 14:49:45 <10PleasingFungus> some argument that the 'shatter the chains' ability should be removed and that trying to remove cursed items should plop up a prompt instead 14:51:11 <10PleasingFungus> but that's a different project 15:10:22 <12ebering> I made it it’s own ability to avoid fat fingering and make it clear to the player what’s going to happen in a non-prompt description if they wanted 15:11:39 <10PleasingFungus> fair 16:24:44 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.28-a0-1412-gf95308ed99 (34) 16:55:10 <05kate> https://twitter.com/0xabad1dea/status/1479146825558884354 16:55:24 <10PleasingFungus> lol 16:55:25 <05kate> the dungeon capitulating is a good alternative to the world ending 16:55:42 <10PleasingFungus> amusing, but strictly worse imo 16:55:50 <10PleasingFungus> imagine letting players win 16:57:05 I wonder if I can apply that to real life, brb 16:59:36 <13Sastreii> You mean if you can survive 1 billion years? Yeah the world will end for sure 17:00:20 I mean I've already made it a quarter of that 17:00:24 <13Sastreii> Anyway, what are the new unrands that need a tile? I’m trying to make the big list with all of the possible revamps 17:01:01 <13Sastreii> You’re 250 million years old? Gratz 17:01:50 does khufu bow when it meets you? 17:02:06 <10PleasingFungus> the new ones are staff of the meek, throatcutter, woodcutter, and delatra’s gloves. i think delatra’s are the worst and woodcutter is the best, but not in love with any of em 17:02:56 <10PleasingFungus> not sure if that’s what you mean 17:03:47 <13Sastreii> Ok, i can maybe find their description on cerebot? (That’s exactly what i meant) 17:04:05 <10PleasingFungus> i can dump the lore in a minute 17:06:01 <10PleasingFungus> note that their playerdoll tiles are even more placeholder than their item sprites… but unclear whether people pay attention to the playerdoll 17:06:01 <13Sastreii> I’ll take care of those too 17:06:01 I do :( 17:06:01 I even use the Doll Editor! 17:06:23 <10PleasingFungus> oh, i forgot two other new ones 17:06:28 <10PleasingFungus> %%%% Mad Mage's Maulers A pair of gloves designed to carefully control and channel the flow of magic, later misused and mangled by the lunatic murderer-mages of the Fifth Circle. Their influence leaves the wearer of these gloves distracted by intrusive images, vividly aware of the death and destruction their hands could wreak. %%%% dreamshard necklace A beautiful rainbow of colour and motion trapped within a delicate crystal 17:06:29 on a thin silver chain. Listening carefully, one can hear the distant echo of a thousand dreams from all corners of reality, their melody giving a warm sense of safety. %%%% Delatra's gloves A pair of long ultramarine gloves, worn by a famed experimental alchemist in an age long past. They channel the energy of discovery, empowering their wearer with the force created by a blind step from ignorance to certainty. %%%% woodcutter's axe A weapon that 17:06:29 chops foes down as steadily and methodically as a forester cutting wood. The unchanging rhythm of its work has settled on it with the force of natural law, and no amount of force or skill can make it swing faster or slower. %%%% Throatcutter Taken from a paladin of the Shining One by the common cutpurse who murdered her, Throatcutter was used for a long series of increasingly sordid deeds thereafter. Blood, murder and betrayal stain its history and 17:06:30 blade both, and little trace now remains of the blade which once stood between danger and the innocent. %%%% staff of the Meek A sacred relic of the Monks of St. Lee, followers of the renunciate archmage. Just as St. Lee sought to atone for the destruction his spells wrought by protecting others, so his staff protects its wielder. 17:06:34 <10PleasingFungus> apologies to irc people for text wall 17:08:31 <10PleasingFungus> notes: - maulers use up all your MP every time you hit a guy, doing big damage - dreamshard necklace revives you if you die - delatra gives healing/mp when you quaff-id or read-id stuff, respectively - woodcutter is a war axe that always takes 10 aut (one normal turn) to swing, regardless of skill - throatcutter can instagib enemies below 21 hp - staff of the meek has super-protection when you're below 50ish hp. also note that a 17:08:31 "relic" is a body part of a saint, so there's some implication that maybe "saint lee" has a fingerbone or something in that staff 17:10:55 <10PleasingFungus> current player sprites 17:10:56 <10PleasingFungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/928802844600041482/unrand_throatcutter.png 17:10:57 <10PleasingFungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/928802844943994920/urand_woodcutters_axe.png 17:10:57 <10PleasingFungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/928802845245988934/urand_meek.png 17:10:57 <10PleasingFungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/928802845749280788/urand_dreamshard.png 17:10:58 <10PleasingFungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/928802847804510229/urand_power_gloves.png 17:10:59 <10PleasingFungus> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/747522859361894521/928802848056172594/urand_delatra.png 17:12:27 <10PleasingFungus> (not in order, sorry) 17:12:27 <13Sastreii> Ultra marine gloves, huh? Sounds really 40k to me😏 17:12:27 <10PleasingFungus> lol 17:12:27 <10PleasingFungus> it just means very blue 😛 17:12:27 <13Sastreii> Ty for all the stuff! 17:12:27 sif gloves? 17:12:27 <10PleasingFungus> np! 18:09:48 New branch created: pull/2340 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2340 18:09:49 03Perry Fraser02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2340 * 0.28-a0-1413-gd633233: refactor and a fix: wearing/taking off armour 10(24 minutes ago, 4 files, 130+ 132-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/d633233d9bdf 18:11:14 * geekosaur wonders if the refactor and fix should be separated 18:11:22 teeeeeeeeeeeechnically 18:12:15 but it was a uh... what's that cliche that's like shed painting when one thing leads to another? That. 18:12:42 The fix ended up being a consequence of the refactoring is my view of it, anyway. 18:12:44 makes it harder to backport the fix to earlier versions, though, which is part of why fixes get tagged as such 18:13:03 fart, forgot about backports 18:13:09 * perryprog goes to separate it 18:34:08 man, I love git. All separated and tests fine :) 18:35:40 03Perry Fraser02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2340 * 0.28-a0-1413-gda92303: fix: prompt once on tiles for wearing risky items 10(14 minutes ago, 1 file, 45+ 74-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/da9230359561 18:35:40 03Perry Fraser02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2340 * 0.28-a0-1414-g032f3f8: refactor: wearing/removing armour 10(13 minutes ago, 4 files, 85+ 58-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/032f3f88c632 18:38:55 <06advil> huh, why is StashSearchMenu MF_MULTISELECT, I don't think it has any multiselect mode? 18:44:00 <06advil> appeared in a big UI refactor commit, so maybe it was a cut and paste mistake 18:44:12 <06advil> and it overrides enough stuff that that apparently doesn't matter 18:46:29 <10PleasingFungus> now that invis spell is gone, I'm wondering about removing sinv from some enemies. specifically: - shrikes (shard + caustic) - ragged hierophant - deep elf high priest - orc high priest - water nymph - ironbound frostheart - demonic crawler - will-o-the-wisp - ancient zyme (???) - worldbinder - various angels (already have haloes) - juggernaut - eyes/brain (various) - guardian mummies & mummy priests - jiangshi - wendigo/nargun 18:46:30 (one of em) - tentacled monstrosity/starspawn - shadow imp - chaos spawn, sun demon, ynoxinul - maybe some 1s and 2s? - war gargoyle - menkaure, mlioglotl, grinder, rupert This gets us closer to a vaguely consistent set of enemies that sinv: - spriggans, nagas, trolls and jellies - "wizards" (some) - vault guards - high-tier demons It also leaves some sinv enemies in each branch, while leaving room for !invis and evokable invis to be strong in the 18:46:30 right circumstances. WDYT? 18:46:33 <10PleasingFungus> oops, another longpost 18:46:48 <10PleasingFungus> cut and paste mistakes are EXTREMELY real 18:47:05 you can also blame them on your clipboard too 18:47:19 those things are evil, and have been loosing people's work for ages 18:47:25 losing* 18:48:37 03Perry Fraser02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2340 * 0.28-a0-1415-g5935866: fixup! refactor: wearing/removing armour 10(6 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 7-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/5935866b10ff 19:00:48 New branch created: see_me (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/see_me 19:00:49 03PleasingFungus02 07[see_me] * 0.28-a0-1412-g559c2c0: Strip sInv from various enemies 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 20+ 20-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/559c2c08590f 19:08:28 <05kate> that definitely sounds good to me as a general thing, especially cutting it from things like the high priests where the base creature doesn't have sinv 19:08:30 aside: it's a shame we don't have nethack's hallucination effect since high priests would have a totally different meaning then 19:09:50 <10PleasingFungus> ok, I cut some of those and wussed out on others 19:10:16 <10PleasingFungus> might do a second pass at some point 19:12:34 <05kate> mummy priests losing it but guardians keeping it feels a little weird, was that intended in the cuts? 19:13:11 <10PleasingFungus> it was intended but is plausibly wrong 19:13:39 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.28-a0-1413-g493c1fd: Strip sInv from various enemies 10(17 minutes ago, 1 file, 20+ 20-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/493c1fd46232 19:14:56 <10PleasingFungus> i was slightly concerned about reducing the density of sinv monsters too far, and also had some line of reasoning about 'guardian mummies' being like 'vault guards' or something 19:14:56 <10PleasingFungus> i guess bennu still have it, so that's probably fine 19:14:58 <05kate> i don't have a particularly strong opinion on priests having it or not, but i feel like guardians shouldn't do if the priests don't yeah 19:15:19 <10PleasingFungus> i'll go ahead and cut em, then. anything else? 19:16:23 <05kate> nothing immediately comes to mind, the rest in the commit looks good to me. from the list you posted i do think that 1s should keep it but other demons sound like a reasonable place to do a second pass at some point 19:17:34 <10PleasingFungus> thanks! appreciate the review 🙂 19:17:55 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.28-a0-1413-g493c1fd462 (34) 19:17:57 <05kate> i guess we do have a decent chunk of 2s that don't have sinv already, mostly the ones that were promoted from being 3s in the ancient past 19:18:33 Removing SInv from shadow imps is Call Imp nerf. 19:18:47 <10PleasingFungus> oh, i forgot about call imp 19:19:01 <10PleasingFungus> but, hm... how many invisible enemies do you fight with call imp? i guess sky beasts? 19:19:13 orc priests too 19:19:16 <10PleasingFungus> oh, orc wizards, right 19:19:18 wizards 19:19:19 er, that 19:19:25 the main use of it 19:19:25 * perryprog always mixes them up 19:19:32 <05kate> seems fine to be consistent across imps and give none of them sinv to me 19:20:07 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.28-a0-1414-gc192539: Remove sInv from guardian mummies (kate) 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c19253909b76 19:21:24 <10PleasingFungus> gotta rely on your woofers, i guess 19:21:24 But otoh now you won't need calling it over and over until you succeed, yes. 19:21:42 <10PleasingFungus> oops, i forgot dogs in my list of sinv things 19:21:47 <10PleasingFungus> so many things. 19:25:55 How about removing SInv from angels? They have halo anyway. And having umbra cancel it seems like a fun tech. 19:31:52 <10PleasingFungus> angels were on my initial list! i was uncertain whether it'd be annoying for tso allied angels to be unable to attack invis stuff at edge of screen 19:31:56 <10PleasingFungus> but probably that's an edge case 19:32:51 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.28-a0-1414-gc19253909b (34) 19:39:25 03PleasingFungus02 07* 0.28-a0-1415-g7c84da0: Remove most angel sInv (Yermak) 10(5 minutes ago, 1 file, 4+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/7c84da036a36 19:47:45 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.28-a0-1415-g7c84da036a (34) 19:56:54 <12ebering> @PleasingFungus vaguely considering 'R' glyph spirituals as a candidate to all get sinv 19:57:19 <12ebering> currently it's a 50/50 split w/eleios and efreets unable to and rakshasa and wendigo able 19:57:32 <12ebering> (hep ancestors are also able and dryads are not) 20:06:25 <10PleasingFungus> heh 20:06:25 <10PleasingFungus> this is a very console line of thought 😛 20:06:26 <10PleasingFungus> follow your heart 20:06:49 <10PleasingFungus> if you add it to eleios, remove it from will-o-wisps, imo 20:06:55 <10PleasingFungus> for swamp stability 20:13:31 <10PleasingFungus> i guess i consider eleios almost nothing like efreets but very much like water nymphs 20:14:13 <12ebering> water nymphs could be on R too p: 20:15:12 <12ebering> deep questions 20:17:51 <10PleasingFungus> deep as water 21:08:59 -!- Yermak_ is now known as Yermak 23:20:50 a year or so ago i was feeling like sinv is handed out pretty liberally to player species too 23:21:17 makes the property on items pretty duddy 23:21:29 or maybe it was rpoi. or maybe both! no one knows what happened last year 23:21:33 no one. 23:34:41 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.28-a0-1415-g7c84da036a (34) 23:57:12 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.28-a0-1415-g7c84da036a