00:18:49 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.28-a0-1387-g3a22ab9bdc (34) 00:20:26 <09gammafunk> @wormsofcan looks a bit more reasonable for latest trunk (1k iters of HEAD for D:5-7), generally 0.4 or 0.5, but still higher, shops don't seem to be the major factor though 00:20:35 <09gammafunk> https://script.google.com/macros/s/AKfycbzMgIJyTQS29VbzQMPkBsizw3feJBGmFQVybC4ztw/exec 00:20:38 <09gammafunk> sorry, link to data 00:24:28 <09gammafunk> still a statistically significant difference with a sample size of 1000! 00:28:26 <09gammafunk> I'm tempted to increase the default number of decimal digit in objstat output from 2 to 3 00:54:26 Monster database of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.28-a0-1387-g3a22ab9bdc 01:47:53 Stable (0.26) branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.26.1-13-g052cdd8df3 01:52:24 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-4506-g453a05f5f4 02:02:03 Stable (0.26) branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.26.1-13-g052cdd8df3 02:03:31 <08wormsofcan> that link isn't working for me 02:09:51 <08wormsofcan> also, now that I look at perryprog's data it appears that all the rare scrolls became more common (acq, vuln, holy word, brand weapon, silence), which suggests it's the weight simplification that is the cause 02:10:34 <08wormsofcan> also summoning 02:11:36 <08wormsofcan> and that matches the change from the commit 02:11:37 <08wormsofcan> %216afd96 02:11:46 <08wormsofcan> %git 216afd96 02:11:47 <04Cerebot> kate- * 0.28-a0-946-g216afd9: Refactor and standardise potion/scroll generation weights (5 weeks ago, 3 files, 157+ 101-) https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/216afd96f532 02:13:01 <08wormsofcan> hmm, maybe not 02:19:56 <08wormsofcan> oops, vuln should not be counted in the rare scroll category, I added that by mistake 02:28:55 <08wormsofcan> ok it does look like the generation matches the weights after all 02:30:01 <09gammafunk> @wormsofcan sorry, here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/13I_YopHUiSjVrPPzCth--LT89ECrcqUkVfenh41bUhw/edit 02:30:26 <09gammafunk> I think you do want to look at this versus the previously posted data with HEAD~1 02:30:34 <09gammafunk> well, I guess for acquirement you do 02:31:08 <08wormsofcan> yeah, this matches pf's changes 02:31:27 <08wormsofcan> so it seems like something in 0.26 was reducing the amount of acquirement being generated on the floor 02:35:14 <09gammafunk> and it's also present in 0.27, right, this increase? 02:35:14 <09gammafunk> yeah seems so 02:41:34 <08wormsofcan> yeah, overall all scrolls that are rare were spawning at 0.03-0.05 in 0.26, and now spawn at 0.06-0.08 02:42:56 <08wormsofcan> and I think the numbers only differ for d:5-d7 02:55:36 <09gammafunk> don't think that's actually true: look at 0.26 D:11 versus 0.27 D:11 02:56:10 <09gammafunk> 0.07 in 0.27 vs 0.04 in 0.26 03:02:26 <08wormsofcan> hmm 03:03:25 <08wormsofcan> oh, depth_mod, the value used to lock rare scrolls in 0.26 is a random variable 03:04:02 <08wormsofcan> random2( 1 + item_level) 03:04:33 <08wormsofcan> if item_level is related to the floor level then that would mean that rare scrolls occur less often on early floors and slowly increase as you go deeper 03:06:47 <08wormsofcan> which would mean non-rare scrolls would also decrease, although that might be harder to tell in objstat 04:22:20 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-4506-g453a05f5f4 04:58:13 -!- allbery_b is now known as geekosaur 07:52:59 <10PleasingFungus> yes, that’s the thing hellmonk was mentioning earlier 07:53:26 <10PleasingFungus> and iirc you could see the difference - ?fog gen dropped significantly 09:20:10 Bisect is looking fruitful :). Surprisingly only 10-ish steps for 0.26.0 to 0.27.0. 09:29:47 What's with mon-pick-data for D going up to 27? Can one even _get_ something 12 levels OOD? 09:31:49 <03wheals> !readall 8 09:31:50 <04Cerebot> This is either a {statue} or a {golem}. It's either totally harmless or an electric golem. / In {DES} syntax, the vault glyph used to make extremely out of depth monsters, generating one from a depth of 2 * current_depth + 4. Good results: d:4 wolf spiders, d:5 centaur warriors, d:6 fire crabs, d:9 sphinxes, d:10 fire giants, d:11 liches. 09:32:45 <03wheals> of course the main reason is that it's a holdover from the times that D was 27 levels long 09:37:44 Hm, but an 8 can still hit 27, fair enough 10:03:14 <09gammafunk> you only need to go to 0.26.1-10-gdfb7c7de75, not 0.26.0 10:08:42 Eh, too late. Currently it looks like it's narrowing in on the early D scroll change 10:19:10 <09gammafunk> oh right, like he said it's a random2 on 1 + item_level 10:19:30 <09gammafunk> so that would end up affecting past d:4 10:21:44 07hellmonk02 {PleasingFungus} * 0.27-a0-663-gc2beb70: Legalize early rare scrolls. 10(10 months ago, 1 file, 12+ 10-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c2beb70d1432 10:21:44 %git c2beb70 10:22:42 The random2(1 + item_level) is removed in that commit, though? Or am I misunderstanding? 10:23:19 <09gammafunk> yes, that's exactly why its buffing the prevalence of said scrolls 10:23:22 ah 10:24:32 <09gammafunk> because item_level is something like absdepth iirc, so e.g. even d:5 would get random2(1+4) and often roll less than 4 10:24:41 <09gammafunk> as would even later levels 10:25:26 <09gammafunk> pretty weird that it did that random2 at all, not sure why someone wanted to introduce variance into the rarity that way, I guess they were worried about the breakpoint 10:29:19 Stable (0.26) branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.26.1-13-g052cdd8 10:35:29 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.28-a0-1387-g3a22ab9 (34) 10:42:51 And yup, I can confirm definitively that c2beb70 is what introduced the large spike in early ?acq prolificness 10:42:54 thanks git bisect 12:46:13 03kate-02 07* 0.28-a0-1388-g3b246a1: Reduce Ashenzari's skill boost (again) 10(2 hours ago, 1 file, 5+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/3b246a18e6dd 12:46:13 03kate-02 07* 0.28-a0-1389-gc726bef: Simplify Gozag gold distraction (hellmonk) 10(22 minutes ago, 3 files, 3+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/c726bef33b27 12:47:54 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.28-a0-1389-gc726bef33b (34) 12:49:38 rip I was gonna do an Ash run next 12:52:20 <05kate> @ebering did you have any more plans for the abyss-scumming branch before merging/were you planning to merge it for 0.28? i have a couple of follow-up commits (preventing piety gain, making stairs/exits slightly more common, and toning down wretched star malmut), i'd be keen to merge it with those for some testing maybe 13:15:37 -!- TAS-2012v is now known as TAS_2012v 13:15:38 -!- daethoven9 is now known as daethoven 13:17:12 -!- tiobot is now known as Guest42 13:20:00 -!- geekosaur is now known as Guest6899 13:20:52 -!- Guest6899 is now known as allbery_b 13:41:34 -!- allbery_b is now known as geekosaur 14:02:30 <10PleasingFungus> we should probably set a feature freeze date 14:02:52 <10PleasingFungus> i nominate, arbitrarily, the 16th 14:30:19 I nominate for the sake of conflict the 17th 14:30:38 <08nicolae> i nominate for the sake of making more vaults the end of january 14:30:52 <08nicolae> the holiday season kinda dragged my get-up-and-go 14:31:57 your get up and go got up and went? 14:38:15 <10PleasingFungus> not clear whether vaults fall under feature freeze 14:38:26 <10PleasingFungus> think their likelihood of causing bugs is relatively low 14:39:09 all they have to do is place some… 15:00:39 -!- robin_ is now known as robin 15:02:36 <08nicolae> geekosaur: exactly 15:02:36 <08nicolae> fortunately, thanks to my dad's taste in music, i was able to get that joke 15:02:57 <08nicolae> fr: some kind of effect that prevents a monster's melee attacks from having special effects (reach, trample, drain, freeze, whatever) 15:03:01 <08nicolae> put it on a hex or something 15:03:44 <08nicolae> make it level 1 so you can deal with adders by neutralizing their venom bites 15:04:34 <08nicolae> level 9 hex: metahex. casts every single-target hex you know onto every target in sight. 15:04:38 Could also be a wand but there's probably enough of those already 15:04:49 "Equalization"? 15:25:32 <12ebering> I meant that as a convo starter but feel free to add on your follow-up commits and merge. I'm short on time for the next week (interviews!) 15:27:45 New branch created: pull/2332 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2332 15:27:46 03robertxgray02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2332 * 0.28-a0-1287-geb7035a: Better support for mobile browsers This is a minimum set of features and fixes to make the WebTiles interface playable on mobile browsers. - Added an optional auxiliary input field that can be focused to enable virtual keybards. - Added a new option tile_web_mobile_input_helper to enable or disable the input field. - Fix touch zoom and scroll disabled when a popup is shown. - Allow popups to be closed with touch events. - Fix some minor display issues on small screens. 10(34 minutes ago, 10 files, 99+ 5-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/eb7035adb99e 15:34:36 <10PleasingFungus> @ebering good luck! 16:23:46 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.28-a0-1389-gc726bef33b (34) 16:25:17 03robertxgray02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2332 * 0.28-a0-1391-g65bd0e6: Merge branch 'master-upstream' into mobile_input 10(68 minutes ago, 0 files, 0+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/65bd0e605631 16:50:11 03kate-02 07[no-more-abyss-scum] * 0.28-a0-1317-g89092fd: Don't grant piety in the Abyss 10(4 days ago, 4 files, 12+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/89092fd7f8fd 16:50:11 03kate-02 07[no-more-abyss-scum] * 0.28-a0-1318-gb1e5632: Reduce wretched star malmutation rate 10(3 days ago, 2 files, 2+ 4-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/b1e563213698 16:50:11 03kate-02 07[no-more-abyss-scum] * 0.28-a0-1319-g73dd8f1: Make Abyss exits and staircases slightly more common 10(26 hours ago, 1 file, 4+ 3-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/73dd8f1d8464 16:50:11 03kate-02 07[no-more-abyss-scum] * 0.28-a0-1320-ga0c4417: Add messaging to show Abyss monsters grant no rewards 10(3 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/a0c44175e555 16:50:53 New branch created: pull/2333 (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2333 16:50:54 03robertxgray02 07https://github.com/crawl/crawl/pull/2333 * 0.28-a0-1390-g4f90bf4: Update typed-ast to 1.4.3 This is required to run the server on Python 3.10+ 10(11 minutes ago, 1 file, 1+ 1-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/4f90bf4fef78 16:58:54 I wonder if there's some neat special flavoring for the "strangely unrewarding" abyss message that'd hint at some lore of the plane. 17:01:49 <05kate> could also give them a custom death message of unravelling into abyss-stuff or something in the same way that summons vanish into smoke, i sort of like the idea that abyss monsters aren't quite real (except the ones you banish there) 17:02:07 oh that's really creepy 17:02:07 wow 17:04:13 Also, should the janky-gods (Usk, Yred, maybe others) allow piety game in the abyss? I'm guessing no, but just want to make sure 17:04:23 usk and yred already are 17:04:25 <05kate> as implemented, usk and yred do allow piety gain, since you don't keep it on leaving the level that seems fine 17:04:42 ah, should've checked the commit, lol 17:06:09 <05kate> (i guess you could technically sit on an abyss exit as an usk worshipper and kill things until you have grand finale piety and then take the exit and use it on whatever scary thing banished you into the abyss but i'm going to say that's probably the kind of scumming that's any kind of real issue) 17:06:19 <05kate> probably not* 17:07:12 Could reset piety on entering the exit, I suppose. That does actually seem a bit cheesy. 17:07:23 "Usk is disappointed by the interruption in your dance." 17:13:23 <08nicolae> i feel like if you're willing to take the risk it's probably okay to do that 17:13:31 <08nicolae> unless usk normally kills piety on level changes 17:13:40 they don't 17:14:09 oh, also there's the lore argument that since no other god gives piety there's no reason for Usk/Yred to, just due to the nature of the Abyss 17:15:37 <05kate> i think gameplay-wise it's probably better this way since otherwise the abyss would turn usk and yred off completely, even if the lore doesn't quite line up as well 17:17:04 well, it kinda does turn the others off since one dare not risk using up all their piety, being unable to regain it while there. perhaps capping piety at its entry value instead? 17:23:29 <10PleasingFungus> many other gods have passives 17:23:29 <10PleasingFungus> i agree with kate on this one, fwiw 17:23:29 <10PleasingFungus> (also, disagree re 'one dare not risk using up all their piety') 17:23:29 <10PleasingFungus> (you don't get more piety if you die in abyss 😛 ) 17:23:29 me too but that's also because Usk is one of my favorite gods so I'm mega biased 👀 17:23:29 <08nicolae> make it so you get more piety if you die in abyss 17:23:29 which reminds me, I think there might be some jank with Usk's messaging when you fall /below/ certain piety thresholds or something weird with the paralysis thing 17:24:58 If the abyss is just going to be a drain on your piety and your consumables supply, is there any reason for players to spend longer there than they are forced to do? Apart from those who really want that particular rune, of course. 17:25:33 I don't think so since weren't floor items nixed too? 17:25:50 I'm not sure if abyssal vaults with loot are still a thing 17:49:12 I've just had a play around with it, and there seem to be some vaults with items in them. The game gives lots of "Unlinked item" error messages when it makes them, so there's some sort of mismatch between what happens and what's supposed to happen. 17:51:14 Oh? I've never seen that 17:59:56 If you go into wizard mode, travel to Abyss:5 and regenerate the level, it creates those messages quite frequently for me. It doesn't seem to do it for every item on the level, though, so it's not simply that the game can't generate floor items properly in the abyss. 18:22:39 <10PleasingFungus> the garbage dump vault is a classic 20:46:10 i think the abyss is not meant to be a place one hangs out, no 20:46:22 a place to get banished to, or ninja a rune and get out 20:48:25 it is nice to have a place where you can squeak out that little bit more exp when you're a small bit away from leveling up and about to hit an endvault somewhere 23:34:45 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.28-a0-1389-gc726bef33b (34) 23:56:11 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.28-a0-1389-gc726bef33b