00:55:12 Unstable branch on cbro.berotato.org updated to: 0.28-a0-1182-g381e24db82 (34) 01:39:24 Fork (bcrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.23-a0-4462-gbb5794c499 01:58:00 Fork (bcadrencrawl) on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.03-725-g779f281183 04:23:14 Experimental (bcrawl) branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.23-a0-4462-gbb5794c499 08:16:39 <12ebering> Putting this up now before I implement some egos 08:18:17 <10PleasingFungus> high tier branch/commit name 08:18:27 <10PleasingFungus> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/205316046230388737/920974759590776883/unknown.png also xposting this before i forget 08:18:30 <10PleasingFungus> because it rules 08:18:39 <10PleasingFungus> let’s talk orbs tho 08:18:44 <12ebering> Planned egos I have in my notes are: Energy (like wucad's passive channeling, tbd on evo scaling and whether to buff wucad), Guile (harm but for willpower), Light (halo), *Rage (perhaps a bit dubious but ??? maybe there's a character out there who'd enjoy it) 08:19:13 <10PleasingFungus> heh 08:21:38 <10PleasingFungus> guile is cool 08:21:51 New branch created: lofi-orbs-to-ponder (1 commit) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/tree/lofi-orbs-to-ponder 08:21:51 03Edgar A. Bering IV02 07[lofi-orbs-to-ponder] * 0.28-a0-1167-gf297f6e: wip: feat: chill lofi orbs to ponder/crawl with 10(3 days ago, 7 files, 33+ 12-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/f297f6ee5c9c 08:23:16 <10PleasingFungus> reminiscent of ?vuln 08:23:16 wait why are there secret agent trolls and ogres 08:23:16 <10PleasingFungus> now imagining an effect that’s like =fire/=ice, but instead of enchancing and giving resistance to eg fire, they’d enhance and give vuln to the same thing 08:23:32 <10PleasingFungus> cebolla: they’re Trog’s Bouncers in Arms 08:24:16 ohhhhh 08:24:54 <10PleasingFungus> it’s good to know that neither english nor korean has a word for the inflatable flappy arm guys 08:25:24 > flapping around empty and begging for a shield 08:25:37 dern tootin, bering 08:26:13 <10PleasingFungus> important: there should be an unrand orb that’s ponderous 08:27:28 <12ebering> Shoulda used ponderous as my placeholder geh 08:27:45 <10PleasingFungus> haha 08:29:49 mini battlesphere orb that casts Iskenderun's Battlesphere when you take some amount of damage 08:29:49 kinda like how nethack characters mostly dualwield or spellcast, it's a bit boring how many characters wind up wearing a shield in dcss 08:29:49 orbs is a good move 08:29:53 <08nicolae> volatile orb. whenever you take damage it explodes like a fulminant prism. 08:29:54 Orb of controlled blink that's just a mimic and poofs when you first cast it 08:30:11 <13Sastreii> This is amazing. Why the little devil tho? Am i missing some reference? 08:30:13 also orb of win game 08:30:18 <08nicolae> that's the orb of zot 08:30:23 :O 08:30:29 <10PleasingFungus> i vaguely liked the idea of ‘2 handeds for spellcasters’, as ebering alluded to in the commit message, but i had no actual ideas for em 08:30:33 <10PleasingFungus> and orbs are cool 08:30:40 <08nicolae> Big Magical Staff 08:30:41 orb of bowling 08:30:44 two-handed orb 08:30:47 <10PleasingFungus> sast: i think that’s supposed to be trog? 08:31:23 <10PleasingFungus> another orb unrand request: “orb of destruction” 08:31:28 nice 08:31:45 i was reading the lil devil as just some kinda bargaining type character 08:31:47 <08nicolae> the Orb of Zorb 08:31:51 <10PleasingFungus> in the great tradition of lehudib’s crystal spear and the royal jelly 08:31:53 orb of locate orb: tells you how many levels/steps from the orb of zot you are 08:31:55 *The Zorb 08:32:20 some kind of soul collecting orb - maybe like powered by death, but you have to spend a turn to evoke it 08:33:47 <08nicolae> orb of mesmerizing 08:34:31 <10PleasingFungus> @ebering thinking a little more about this, i think we want to be very mindful about when or if to add downsides to these effects. every orb already comes with a very large downside (no sh!), so adding more downsides (eg hex vulnerability for guile) is going to be a pretty dang hard sell 08:36:22 <10PleasingFungus> also, can’t wait for players to start asking for their cats to be allowed to ponder orbs 08:36:22 cats literally can't pick up orbs :P 08:36:22 it's effectively a Punishment Marble 08:36:30 whoops, dropped it. whoops, dropped it. 08:36:40 orb of jelly: normal randart orb stats but will occasionally make sounds � la "Jivya gurgles merrily" 08:36:49 (which is also one of my favorite god/monspeak lines ever) 08:37:26 <08nicolae> orb of divination, reveals stuff as you walk around 08:39:19 <08nicolae> orb of death, kills you 08:39:20 <12ebering> @PleasingFungus good point re downsides, though I think that with guile it’s more of a numbers game to make it an interesting sell 08:40:27 a steel orb that procs daze 08:40:32 it's not magic you're just hitting them in the skull 08:40:38 nice 08:40:47 <08nicolae> love it 08:43:01 orb of shielding: exactly equivalent to a buckler but it's an orb 08:43:01 <08nicolae> orb of staff something, enhances the power of a magical staff carried in the other hand (increases the power enhancement, does more damage), does nothing if you're not holding a staff 08:43:01 04Build failed for 08lofi-orbs-to-ponder @ f297f6ee 06https://github.com/crawl/crawl/actions/runs/1588120916 08:46:33 orb of xom: gives various subtle xom-like (think 5e magic magic) effects on spell casts 08:49:43 Also gives a bonus to Xom's interest and amusement if you're a follower 08:49:43 <08nicolae> orb of mayhem, whenever a creature dies in your LOS monsters who see both you and the death have a chance to frenzy 08:49:43 <10PleasingFungus> oh, that's very interesting 08:49:47 <10PleasingFungus> mayhem, i mean 08:51:18 s/orb/skull/ perhaps (like "necklace" for amulets) 08:51:42 orb of discord: gives a small chance to distract intelligent monsters when attacking you, similar to Ru's aura 08:52:13 <08nicolae> orb of roundness. it's so round 08:54:40 <10PleasingFungus> perhaps the skull of specific ancient creatures 08:56:22 <10PleasingFungus> wyrmskull 08:56:22 <08nicolae> the Youskull 08:56:22 <08nicolae> it's your own skull 08:56:22 <10PleasingFungus> wow 08:56:22 <10PleasingFungus> orb of slaying 08:56:22 <08nicolae> orb of silence 08:56:34 <09hellmonk> orb of spellslaying: gives you slay but only after you cast 08:56:47 <10PleasingFungus> oh, i've been looking for a place to put that effect 08:56:51 <10PleasingFungus> into it 08:57:26 <10PleasingFungus> also, xposting hellmonk's proposal to turn the staff of battle into the orb of battle 08:57:33 <08nicolae> the sphere of battle 08:57:38 <09hellmonk> Need some caution wrt duration and strength of effect (should prob scale with level) 08:57:49 <08nicolae> what about... cubes 08:57:57 <10PleasingFungus> lol 08:58:02 <08nicolae> there's an entire world of platonic solids we could use 08:58:37 <08nicolae> the tetrahedron of power 08:58:45 <10PleasingFungus> a cube that has a chance of binding enemies souls on death (raising em as dchan spectrals). call it the Block of Enchaining 08:59:02 <09hellmonk> You finish equipping the nonagon of power 08:59:14 <08nicolae> the Isocahedron of Thaumaturgy 09:00:30 <08nicolae> orb would make a useful item category for just weird shit that you hold 09:00:34 <08nicolae> like... a thurible 09:08:02 orb of companionship: self-explanatory 09:13:34 Is there any reason why the maximum possible damage (and maybe, average damage) of a weapon isn't listed along with the base damage? It would make choosing weapons easier 09:14:08 Nothing more fun than to choose between a +3 broad axe {elec} and +4 war axe 09:26:45 <12ebering> crawl's weapon damage is weird from the point of view of random variable theory and listing only one number would be misleading in many cases 09:27:24 <12ebering> earlier incarnations of dev thinking on showing numbers was too many leads to clutter and analysis paralysis, the ghost of dpeg would tell you to try both fighting a yak pack and pick which feels better 09:27:47 <12ebering> player rules of thumb would say take the bigger basedam (almost) always 09:30:12 Enchant rates and weapon skills messes that up though 09:30:12 Surely "Base damage: X, Max damage: X" wouldn't be too bad? 09:30:12 <12ebering> implicitly when you show people numbers about a random process they tend to assume either 1. it's uniformly distributed (no helping these players sadly) or 2. you've given them all of the possible information 09:30:25 <12ebering> crawl weapon damage is a product of three (very weird, differet, depending on base dam, skill, and stats) dice plus 1d(enchant) - 1 09:30:39 <12ebering> brand effects then modify this base number in various ways 09:30:54 <12ebering> in a display, the enchant part can be displayed easily 09:31:05 <12ebering> plus however much bonus damage 09:31:24 <12ebering> so it really comes down to communicating the core part of the damage in a useful way to players 09:31:42 <12ebering> useful meaning: accurate and understandable 09:32:34 I see 09:33:11 <12ebering> the challenge is for a product of three dice the accurate numbers are the maximum (reasonable easy to understand), the average of the logarithm of damage done (how to describe this to a non-mathematician), and the variance of log(damage) (probably not important to show a player as long as the previous one is explained well) 09:33:35 Simply require all players be mathematicians 09:33:45 (on at least one side) 09:34:02 Sounds like its crawl's damage formulas that are too complicated :P 09:34:43 <12ebering> they make the combat swingy in ways that have good gamefeel when you put away the spreadsheets 09:34:54 true 09:34:58 Even so, I still feel like maximum damage would better convey what weapons are better 09:37:00 The point wasn't to know what's the average damage, just to get a feel for what weapon could theoretically output more 09:37:00 But possibly I'm just thick-skulled and missing something 09:37:01 <12ebering> well, that's the +3 broad axe {elec} for every skill value 😉 09:37:26 kiedtl: imagine a weapon that mostly does little damage and occasionally a huge amount. (It could be called "Finisher") 09:37:40 True, {elec} makes the weapon! But I was trying to come up with a ambiguous situation :D 09:37:46 Pinkbeast: good point, there are those 09:39:11 <12ebering> removing the elec the broad axe will have the higher max damage 09:39:15 <12ebering> in a given swing 09:40:53 Unfortunately none of these things are obvious to new folks :| 09:41:33 <08nicolae> yeah it's a little awkward 10:06:43 <05kate> hmm, I'm pro orb in theory but I do think it's worth being careful with the cloak/scarf comparison, the trade-off there is that you're giving up on AC for a rare ego, with no skill investment required in either case 10:07:28 <05kate> as opposed to just getting an extra slot with a new ego without any skill investment, which seems to be what orbs are doing 10:07:50 <08nicolae> rename Shields skill to Ambidexterity 10:07:59 <08nicolae> governs shields, orbs, offhand punches 10:08:05 <08nicolae> nailed it 10:09:57 <05kate> also relatedly, shield penalties should definitely be adjusted to be more like armour skill, and get reduced but not eliminated by skill training, that's been on my to-do for a bit 10:13:18 <05kate> (which would also help discourage ~casters~ from picking up shields without at least thinking about it a bit more) 10:17:50 Hey, do the hard cutoff mindelay for weapons while you're there :-) 10:19:05 <05kate> would be good too, but that one probably requires a bit more planning! I think the old devwiki has some ancient pages with graphs and things from way back 10:20:03 <09hellmonk> what is the hard cutoff mindelay thing? 10:21:08 I'm referring to the way weapon skill up to mindelay is worth much more than weapon skill after that. 10:21:11 <05kate> as in reworking weapon skill training so there's no min delay breakpoint, it keeps improving up to 27 in some form 10:22:28 <09hellmonk> oh 10:22:28 <12ebering> The fact that orbs work with no skill compared to shields having skill is what had me tilting in the direction of things with trade offs for the egos 10:22:28 <09hellmonk> there was a tavern thread about that a while back 10:22:28 <12ebering> Though a 0skill buckler is pretty great 10:22:28 <09hellmonk> Seemed difficult to make weapon choice function anything like current crawl 10:22:28 <12ebering> The scope creeps 10:23:36 <05kate> and yeah, the vulnerabilities/downsides seem like a good way to address the fact that they don't require any skill investment 10:24:12 <08nicolae> what if they did... Orbs skill. combine it with shields. Shorbs. 10:24:32 <10PleasingFungus> good point re not requiring skill investment; i'd overlooked that 10:24:46 <10PleasingFungus> does mean that orbs will be better early game than later, all else being equal 10:24:50 <10PleasingFungus> when skills are more expensive 10:25:13 <10PleasingFungus> all else isn't equal but it's something to keep in mind 10:25:34 <10PleasingFungus> i'm somewhat undecided on how i feel about weapon/shield skill breakpoints, and whether i think they're actually a bad thing 10:25:42 <10PleasingFungus> they are quite unintuitive, especially weapon skill breakpoints 10:26:02 <10PleasingFungus> new players will naturally assume that, if they're an axe user, they should keep training axes to be better at axes 10:26:30 <10PleasingFungus> and dcss isn't clear enough about how damage works (as discussed earlier!) to make it obvious why that doesn't work very well, or isn't very efficient 10:26:34 <10PleasingFungus> once you pass mindelay 10:27:13 <10PleasingFungus> on the other side, i do quite like the current dynamics of different weapons having different investment 'requirements'; as hellmonk said, might be tricky to get a similar effect without the breakpoints 10:28:53 <10PleasingFungus> shields are already a bit fuzzier and i don't think the breakpoints for them accomplish as much 10:28:53 Unstable branch on crawl.akrasiac.org updated to: 0.28-a0-1182-g381e24d (34) 10:29:34 <09hellmonk> To be clear I do think that making weapon skill do something past mindelay would be good, but the mindelay at 27 solution has problems (at least in earlier proposals, it tends to make the bigger weapon strictly better at every skill level) 10:30:06 <08nicolae> what if there is no mindelay................... 10:30:38 see also: dark maul 10:30:55 but de facto I think that ends up being the same as mindelay at 27 10:35:39 <10PleasingFungus> could delinearize the relationship between weapon speed and skill and try to make a curve that kind of looks like the current one but continues (with diminishing returns) past current mindelays 10:35:39 <10PleasingFungus> that sounds complicated tho 10:35:39 PF: That's the idea on our list 10:35:39 <10PleasingFungus> neat! let us know if you get it working 🙂 10:35:39 haha 10:36:37 <08nicolae> what's the current relationship between speed and skill 10:36:50 <08nicolae> wait, it's just -0.1 time for 2 skill levels, right 10:39:11 <10PleasingFungus> yes 10:39:30 <08nicolae> and mindelay is 0.7 for most stuff except qblades and maybe other short blades, yeah? 10:39:44 There's a scattering of 0.6s like demon whips 10:40:00 <08nicolae> inchresting 10:40:01 <10PleasingFungus> mindelay is either base_delay/2 or 0.7, whichever is lower 10:40:07 <10PleasingFungus> ??spear 10:40:07 <04Cerebot> spear[1/1]: (polearms; +4 acc / 6 dam / 1.1 base delay / 0.5 min delay). A hunting weapon consisting of a wooden shaft with a pointed metal head fastened on one end. 10:40:08 <10PleasingFungus> ??trident 10:40:09 <04Cerebot> trident[1/1]: (polearms; +1 acc / 9 dam / 1.3 base delay / 0.6 min delay). A fishing spear improved with a longer shaft and a three-pronged metal head. 10:40:11 <10PleasingFungus> ??glaive 10:40:11 <04Cerebot> glaive[1/1]: (polearms; -3 acc / 15 dam / 1.7 base delay / 0.7 min delay; two handed). A pole with a large, heavy blade on one end. Glaives chop hydra heads. 10:40:26 <10PleasingFungus> 1.1/2 = 0.5, obviously 10:40:28 <08nicolae> also whenever i see "mindelay" i always think of this song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeJJR_uMYlQ 10:40:36 <10PleasingFungus> ah, the mandelay effect 10:42:27 <08nicolae> lol nice 10:42:27 <09hellmonk> Theres a special exception for non-qb short blades which get 0.5 mindelay 10:42:27 <10PleasingFungus> sounds faintly familiar 10:42:27 <10PleasingFungus> ??rapier 10:42:27 <04Cerebot> rapier[1/1]: (short blades; +4 acc / 8 dam / 1.2 base delay / 0.5 min delay). A slender, sharply pointed sword, with an uncommonly elegant design. Doesn't chop hydra heads. 10:42:27 surely someone's already done the work of computing a normal/gaussian curve that roughly fits a linear distribution until the long tail (i.e. for some multiple of st.dev) 10:42:27 <10PleasingFungus> surely..? 10:43:10 <08nicolae> i imagine the trick is finding a curve that's the right shape 10:43:27 <08nicolae> for the desired xp progression or whatever 10:44:00 <08nicolae> like if the curve is too L-shaped you'd get a huge benefit from like two skill levels 10:45:18 seems like it ought to be a fairly fundamental stats thing 10:45:50 <08nicolae> what we need is integrals 10:49:11 damn it, hate websites that assume you have LaTeX built into the browser 11:02:39 dang, lost my irc connection a lot today. the orb chat is interestin though 11:02:39 can scrubs/contributors use the discord? 11:02:39 maybe orbs can be compared to bucklers; the skill cost of bucklers is trivial enough to be roughly equal to "free". The fact that orbs work with no skill compared to shields having skill is what had me tilting in the direction of things with trade offs for the egos 11:03:09 and ego bucklers do tend to drop eventually 11:05:22 <08nicolae> one thing to figure out: what should be the Absolute Minimum delay, should the rate of speed improvement drop off after current mindelay, etc? like, what if you took the graph, but added a second line between mindelay skill and 27 skill with a shallower slope (like -0.1 delay for every 3 or 4 skill levels), and then when you've got that line, find a curve that approximates them both 11:06:34 that's more or less what I'm suggesting, except I assume there's already a way to essentially fit a linear distribution to a gaussian one 11:07:19 giving you a nice curve that goes on forever, with dwindling returns beyond a certain point. it will give a slightly improved "payback" at first, though 11:09:25 might prefer a curve that starts out linear and gradually fits itself to the X axis at x=inf 12:13:54 would it be crazy to have a calculated average damage-per-aut on the description for any given weapon at your current skills? 12:14:42 someone already asked that. it would be skewed by Finisher among others 12:14:58 finisher? 12:15:08 oh 12:17:23 hm, I imagine you'd have to have a custom exception to say "damage-per-aut when not instakill" for it or something then 12:17:23 <12ebering> I wouldn’t worry about finished 12:17:23 and then there's wyrmbane 12:17:23 <10PleasingFungus> yeah, finisher very easy to exclude (not least because its effect doesn't actually do damage) 12:17:23 <12ebering> I’m worried about not misleading players with bad summary statistics 12:17:23 lies lies statistics as they say 12:17:26 <10PleasingFungus> ebering, slightly earlier: > implicitly when you show people numbers about a random process they tend to assume either 1. it's uniformly distributed (no helping these players sadly) or 2. you've given them all of the possible information 12:17:28 but yeah fair enough ebering 12:17:34 <10PleasingFungus> and some other notes 12:51:05 <09gammafunk> ebering, a fedhas-themed melee weapon that's a sharpened piece of magical wood from a tree that grows very straight 12:51:05 <09gammafunk> ...call it truncated log linear :gammafHeh: 12:57:48 <08nicolae> 12:57:48 gammafunk you're amazing 13:00:59 !source god-abil.cc:5712 13:00:59 Am I cool to make a PR that'd make that say "androgynous" instead of "person was always neither, you're pretty sure" 13:00:59 https://github.com/crawl/crawl/blob/master/crawl-ref/source/god-abil.cc#L5712 13:01:39 Though in choosing whether they're "male/female/neither", I personally think "neither" is fine. 13:01:47 It's just the message after that that reads as janky to me 13:05:15 <05kate> androgynous doesn't feel right in that context to me, "neither male nor female" is what makes sense to me there 13:05:46 "You're pretty sure you don't care" 13:06:13 ^ what I would say IRL 13:06:36 ah, yeah kate, with the "male nor female" it sounds better 13:11:09 "Appia was always neither male nor female, you're pretty sure." is fine? Still reads weirdly to me with the "always" in it 13:11:24 Might be fine to drop the "always" from all versions of the message, too 13:11:44 "always" also goes weird if you use it a second time 13:12:08 <05kate> makes sense to me like that, I don't have a problem with the current wording either though 13:13:26 bah language is weird 13:13:53 it's always felt odd to me, but if no one else has a problem with it I won't bother 13:14:51 always been neither, never been either 13:15:03 *shrug* 13:25:17 <10PleasingFungus> ain't never been nothin but a hound dog 13:29:42 <12ebering> nothing new, just picking up the unbrace fix 13:30:00 03Edgar A. Bering IV02 07[lofi-orbs-to-ponder] * 0.28-a0-1183-g1bd403c: wip: feat: chill lofi orbs to ponder/crawl with 10(4 days ago, 7 files, 32+ 11-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/1bd403c8fbec 13:57:10 03Edgar A. Bering IV02 07[lofi-orbs-to-ponder] * 0.28-a0-1184-ge8abe14: wip: feat: orb of light 10(9 minutes ago, 9 files, 29+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/e8abe14f5f97 14:00:38 <08nicolae> orbs... 14:01:16 <08nicolae> orb of wisdom. int + N where N is pretty big 14:03:13 <08nicolae> also as you carry it around and do stuff (explore? kills? cast?) on a long interval it will sometimes give you a free spell level 14:15:21 <10PleasingFungus> mayhem and spellslaying are the winners, for me 14:15:25 <10PleasingFungus> thus far 14:21:02 <12ebering> do like offering more frenzy 14:27:39 <12ebering> augh 14:28:10 <12ebering> const int SP_UNKNOWN_BRAND = 31; // seen_weapon/armour is a 32-bit bitfield [snip] // We have space for 32 brands in the bitfield. COMPILE_CHECK(NUM_SPECIAL_ARMOURS <= SP_UNKNOWN_BRAND) 14:28:30 <08nicolae> lmao 14:28:35 <08nicolae> time for a biggest bitfield i guess 14:28:42 <08nicolae> bigger* 14:28:53 <08nicolae> i know discord has an edit feature but that is unfair to our friends across the irc bridge 14:29:00 <08nicolae> well, maybe biggest would also work 14:29:07 <08nicolae> couple gigs to store brands 14:29:35 <12ebering> that bitfield is marshalled into save files so making it bigger is Work™ 14:29:44 <08nicolae> ah. eep. 14:29:57 <12ebering> wonder if I should implement orbs like staves instead 14:30:09 <08nicolae> how are staves implemented 14:30:50 <12ebering> staves are item_type OBJ_STAVES and then their own subtypes 14:30:53 <08nicolae> aha 14:30:59 <12ebering> and don't have the same id bitfield 14:31:04 <12ebering> so I'd have complete freedom 14:31:04 <08nicolae> on the other hand, might be worthwhile to rip off that bitfield bandaid 14:33:07 <10PleasingFungus> bandfield. bitaid 14:33:43 <10PleasingFungus> staves are their own mess 14:33:47 <10PleasingFungus> but, uh 14:33:59 <10PleasingFungus> given each item can only have at most one brand 14:34:15 <10PleasingFungus> …right, right, seen types 14:34:31 <10PleasingFungus> but… why do we care about what brands you’ve seen?! 14:34:50 <10PleasingFungus> acq? 14:34:55 <12ebering> acq 14:35:07 <08nicolae> why does acq care? 14:35:11 <08nicolae> does it focus on stuff you haven't seen yet 14:35:14 yes 14:39:45 <10PleasingFungus> seen armour is for armour types, not brands 14:39:45 <10PleasingFungus> hrm 14:39:47 <10PleasingFungus> fr: SP_ shouldn't be the prefix for two different enums 14:40:02 <09hellmonk> Move staves to offhand anf implement orbs as staff subtype 14:40:10 <10PleasingFungus> oh, i see, we track which brands have been seen for each armour type?? 14:41:06 <10PleasingFungus> ok, i think that value is literally only used in one place, acquire.cc:1246 14:41:16 <10PleasingFungus> er, 1245 14:42:00 <10PleasingFungus> so this is relevant exclusively to oka armour gifts 14:42:07 <10PleasingFungus> which are already pretty junky! 14:42:18 <10PleasingFungus> so i think you could actually just remove that bitfield logic entirely and lose nothing 14:44:02 <12ebering> Sweet ty 15:09:46 <09hellmonk> Orb of light should be a dazzling flash enhancer 15:23:42 <08nicolae> to make it less spell-specific, make it so whenever a creature would be affected by your hex it has its own chance to be blinded, which in dazzling flash's case would be a second roll to be blinded to make it a little more effective 15:24:04 <08nicolae> although i guess making it a hex-helper would be kind of at odds with the halo 16:22:54 Unstable branch on underhound.eu updated to: 0.28-a0-1182-g381e24db82 (34) 17:01:58 orb of marble: a marble from this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG6EOci0suI 17:08:56 <08nicolae> orb of eyes 17:49:41 <09hellmonk> thoughts about this remove aux attack str + dex check thread? https://crawl.develz.org/tavern/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=27229 17:50:07 <09hellmonk> I think the analysis here is mostly kind of bad but he's right that it's a weird spoiler, maybe could scale aux chance by xl or something instead 18:06:50 <05kate> scaling with XL sounds reasonable to me i think. probably there are a bunch of other niche things that scale with a stat that shouldn't do, i definitely think they're better as having a smaller number of overarching effects rather than lots of tiny individual effects 18:06:58 <05kate> minotaur retaliation is the other obvious one that comes to mind 18:07:23 <05kate> can make it a good batch of chei nerfs 18:09:38 <09hellmonk> rip chei 😦 18:09:38 noooo 18:09:38 * merryprog has been trying to get a chei win 18:12:11 <05kate> other similar things to change would be bite damage (has a weird extra strength dependent portion that could probably be removed entirely and just rolled into some extra base damage) and jiyva tendril disarm chance (has a str/dex check that could probably be XL or something) 18:16:26 <10PleasingFungus> seems good 18:32:29 <08nicolae> the plan to remove all stats continues......... 18:33:29 just the weirdshit stats deps that nobody knows about or expects 19:14:06 <08nicolae> nope. we're tearing out all the stats 19:14:55 causative was right all along 19:22:47 03Kate02 07* 0.28-a0-1183-g2b4b0b1: Prevent self-healing abilities under DDoor 10(3 hours ago, 1 file, 12+ 0-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/2b4b0b1879f0 19:22:47 03Kate02 07* 0.28-a0-1184-g53156a8: Adjust messaging for monsters dropping wands on death 10(21 minutes ago, 1 file, 2+ 2-) 13https://github.com/crawl/crawl/commit/53156a8862d3 19:35:57 Unstable branch on crawl.kelbi.org updated to: 0.28-a0-1184-g53156a8862 (34) 19:38:56 <10PleasingFungus> hm 19:39:10 <10PleasingFungus> does the new message imply they only have one bone each? 19:41:15 <05kate> it doesn't read that way to me, just that it's only one bone doing the wand-turning-into 19:42:39 <05kate> "a foo bone [...]" feels a bit less clunky than "a bone of the foo [...]" to me at least 19:45:12 <05kate> although the main thing i wanted to change was just using the monster name instead of "a bone of the foo corpse" in the old message 20:16:21 <10PleasingFungus> oh, i didn't see "a" 20:16:26 <10PleasingFungus> that seems good 20:16:32 <10PleasingFungus> assumed it was possessive for some reason 20:16:33 <10PleasingFungus> foo's bone 23:18:48 the bone specifically of Kuzco 23:35:18 Unstable branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.28-a0-1184-g53156a8862 (34) 23:55:45 Windows builds of master branch on crawl.develz.org updated to: 0.28-a0-1184-g53156a8862